From: Neon John <johngdnospam@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Important Question - Seeking advice Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 06:59:05 EDT Newsgroups: rec.food.restaurants John Smotman wrote: > > I am starting my own business where I will be shipping perishable foods. I > am wondering where the best place would be for me to obtain shipping boxes > that are insulated with a styrofoam liner to keep the product cold. I am > also looking to purchase gel packs. If anyone could respond here, or better > yet, email me, I would appreciate it greatly. My business will be located in > Rhode Island, so a supplier near that area would be even better than having > the materials shipped long-distance. Thanks in advance. Check out Lifoam. headquarters in Baltimore. Factory in Rome, Ga among other places. They have factories near major markets because it costs so much to ship air. HQ phone number is 410 889 1023. They have the best prices we've found. The key to keeping the cost down is picking the foam up at the factory. We haul a trailer full from Rome a couple times a year. Shipping would literally cost more than the foam. We ship BBQ and related products. (we don't advertise - this is a service to our regular customers.) You'll find that ice packs won't do the job. You have two choices. One is dry ice and the other is ultra-freezing. You can buy dry ice in bulk and store it for weeks in ultra-insulated foam boxes. The problem with dry ice is you'll pay hazardous material shipping surcharges plus the labeling requirements are rather stringent. Ultra-freezing is freezing the product to -150 deg or better and then insulating it sufficiently to stay frozen for the overnight shipment. There are ultra-freezers available. Liquid nitrogen is another alternative. I built a cascade freezer system for our relatively small operation. I've found this to work well enough that I can get away with 2nd day air. You might also want to look at foam-in-place shipping foam. I've done some instrumented shipping using this technology and have found it to out-perform styrofoam shipping containers at a fraction of the cost. Small gravity fed foam machines start in the $600 range. You MUST include safety tattletales in your package in contact with the food. These cost less than a dime and change colors when the temperature (or even better the time-temperature envelope) rises to an unsafe level. This tells the customer not to eat food that may have warmed up in shipment. FDA is going to require this, probably in 2002. 3M, among others, makes the tattletales. Finally you must test. Onset Systems (on the net) makes a little temperature data logger about the size of box of matches. This tiny little data logger can record temperatures for days, is interrogated by a PC and only costs a touch over $100. I use these things extensively, not only for testing my shipping procedures but also inside catering containers. It's nice to be able to PROVE that the food remained at safe temperatures until custody was transfered to the customer. (And by noting when the temperature spike from opening the container occured, I can tell if my delivery people are screwing off :-) For evaluating your shipping procedures and materials, the data logger not only tells you that something doesn't work, it tells you WHEN it failed, or if it worked, how much safety margin you have. Remember when you're evaluating your shipping process that your package may sit on the customer's stoop for the better part of the day. Last thoughts on the subject - I have my very serious doubts about being able to start a mail order food service from scratch without an established restaurant reputation and cash flow. In my segment, the successful shippers such as Corky's FIRST had a very successful restaurant and only later branched out into mail order. Everything conspires against startups - purveyers save their highest prices for startups, you have no reputation, advertising is expensive and worst, the shipping companies nail you to the wall until you reach a certain threshold (and then they practically give the shipping away!) Hope you have deep pockets!!! John -- John De Armond johngdSPAMNOT@bellsouth.net John G's BBQ & USDA Prime Steakhouse Cleveland, TN From: Neon John <johngdnonspam@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: packaging question Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 23:49:35 EDT Newsgroups: rec.food.restaurants Sam Milanos wrote: > > First off, frozen food usually gets to stores and restaurants via a > refrigerated truck. If this is what you are going to do, you are going to > need a distribution hub in every region you plan to ship to. If you will be > using any air shipping (which is impractical) there are limits to the amount > of Dry Ice you can use. Mind you, the package must be CLEARLY marked that > it contains Dry Ice if it is to be shipped by air. > > Second, your endeavors (despite how good your intentions are) are somewhat > idiotic! You see, there are these places called SUPERMARKETS!!! At these > places they sell FROZEN FOOD!!! People don't want to wait for the mail > before they eat. Get a clue!!! Neither I, nor anyone else want frozen food > rotting in the mailbox. Contact a merchandising company and get the product > on the shelf!!! Quit using FedEx to peddle your meat!!! Uh, pardon me, sir. You're ignorance is showing. If you want to tuck your ignorance back in, perhaps you'd take a look at Corky's BBQ, Omaha Steaks, Legal Seafood and any number of other companies who are doing quite nicely with mail order frozen gourmet food. To the original question. Most companies I'm familiar with use dry ice. True, the package has to be labeled but that's simply a matter of affixing a label. If you want to go that route, contact FEDEX. They're quite experienced at shipping frozen food. There are a number of companies that sell styrofoam shippers designed for mailorder shipping. Your client should already know about these but if he doesn't, have him check any of the major trade pubs - these containers are widely advertised. A second option is to ultra-freeze. This involves freezing the product to 150-200 deg below zero, insulating well and shipping. This is the technique I use when I ship BBQ. The standard styrofoam containers are a bit thin for this application. I've had good luck both with styrofoam peanuts and foam-in-place insulation. You'll need to instrument some test shipments to determine the cold reserve available for your portion size. If there is inadequate cold reserve, one can insert the cryropacked product into a larger bag filled with water and the whole assembly frozen. Even better, if the product will withstand the added expense, is a water/glycerine overlayer. This mixture thaws at a low enough temperature to keep the product fully frozen until all the glycerine ice melts. -- John De Armond johngdSPAMNOT@bellsouth.net John G's BBQ Restaurant Cleveland, TN |