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From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Nightvision scope hazards
Date: 12 Jun 1994 21:47:28 -0400

Brian Cox ( wrote:
: In article <>,  <> wrote:
: #|Center scientists to suspect that they might unintentionally produce x
: #|rays; therefore, the viewers were tested for x-ray emission.  Viewers
: #|produced by the Novosibrisk Instrument Making Plant, Novosibrisk,
: #|Russian Federation, were identified as either T3C-2 or T3C-3.  All
: #|tested samples of T3C units, which have a plastic housing, were found to
: #|emit low-energy x rays (14.5 KeV) at levels of up to 20 mR/hr.  (As a
: #|comparison, the FDA performance standard for television receivers limits
: #|the level of s radiation to less than 0.5 mR/hr.)

This isn't aimed at Brian who is simply repeating the report.  (Takes off
his shooter's cap and puts on his health-physicist one) In a word, BS.
Ain't possible.  First off, X-rays do not have a single characteristic
energy like gammas but are a continuum bounded on one end by the 
energy of the electrons and (typically) the Fermi potential on the other.
Where the continuum peaks is dependent on the target of the electrons
and rises with the atomic mass of the target.  For the accelerating
voltages I've seen quoted for these instruments (~70kv or so) and 
assuming that the 14 KeV was the average, the target would have to be
a very high Z material.  This is inconsistent with the materials 
used in these things.  Secondly, the dose is somewhat proportioanal
to the beam current.  Ain't no way a beam current in the low microamp
range that these things use is going to produce an external dose 
of 20 mR/hr.  A common error, one expected from the CDC when they
characteristicly poke their noses in areas where they have no competence,
is the mis-application of instrumentation in this energy range.  I know
a few people who know enough about low energy X-ray measurement that
I'd believe their numbers.  None of them work for the CDC.


From: Gale McMillan <>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR-15 night vision scope
Date: 23 Jun 1996 19:48:12 -0400

#      What type of price would a person expect to pay for a night vision
# scope for an AR-15?  If anyone has any suggestions on recommended
# manufacturers that would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Quality night vision equipment is very expensive.  If you go with
eastern block equipment you are going with first Gen. and inferior
scopes that don't have much service or spare part availability. There
are several US companies that make NV equipment using reconditioned
military tubes both 2nd. and 3rd.tubes that are more expensive but
better value. I make a scope for ITT law enforcement that is the latest
wrinkle. It is both day and night. It not only is the least expensive
of the high quality makes but in every test we compared them with
Litton, Vero,and Kite of England the ITT scope came in first. I am now
in the process of bringing out a new version for the military that is
much more effective than anything on the market. Litton makes the
Ranger in both 2nd. and 3rd. gen available to the public starting
somewhere over $5000. The ITT sells for just over 4000 but is only
available to police at this time. The best deal in price is a
reconditioned PBS4. If you hunt around you can find some pretty cheap.
Keep in mind that you get what you pay for so if it's real cheap it is
more than likely 1st. gen. I neglected to mention the Simrad, they make
two. They are the add on variety. They attach to the day scope and are
a good system used by all of our military. They run over $8000 for
either model.

Gale McMillan

From: Gale McMillan <>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night Vision Scopes?
Date: 29 Nov 1997 10:42:47 -0500

John Burton wrote:
# Someone mentioned the Moonlight night vision scope that K-Mart has for
# sale at $169.  Any comments or experience?  I'm thinking about getting
# something to use at night since I live out in the country.  Just
# something to look around with, not attach to a gun.
# Any suggestions or comments on reasonably priced night vision devices
# apreciated.
# John Burton
# South Dakota

When good 3rd gen tubes start at 2300 dollars you can figure what you
get for that kind of money. I recommend you buy a ITT commercial
monocular or their night mariner binoculars. They have commercial grade
third Gen tubes. They are expensive but are reliable and I would bet
that your money would be wasted on the moonlight scope. Of coarse I'm
used to tubes that start at 45 line pair and I would bet the tube in the
moon lite wont go 30.

From: Gale McMillan <>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night Vision question
Date: 30 Nov 1997 20:50:56 -0500

Wile E. Coyote wrote:
# (Derek Sheehan) wrote:
# #I have a friend who is thinking of buying her husband some night vision
# #gear for Christmas.  They are not into guns, so she isn't looking for a
# #scope, just a monocular or binocular type set-up.
# #What do you look for when buying this gear?
# #What are some experiences with this gear?
# #What would you recommend?
# #Thanks in advance.
# #Derek
# #The ideas and opinions expressed here are my own and in no-way represent the opinions of my employer.
# The best source of info for this is astronomers.  Good places to start
# on the web: 1. (publishes Sky & Telescope), 2.
#, 3. (dealer in
# optics), 4. (deals on used optics), 5.
# (more used optics).
# Go down to your local library and see if they have Sky & Telescope or
# Astronomy Magazines.  Give some of the dealers a call (Orion Telescope
# may be helpful- see; they are very knowledgable
# about this stuff.
# Astronomy binocs are available with objective (front) lens as large as
# 6" diameters (some ships' binocs are big too).  Best general purpose
# binocs are 7x50 or 10x50 (7x and 10x magnification and 50mm objective
# lenses).  I've also seen amatuer astronomers build "binocular"
# telescopes using 14" mirrors for objective lenses...
# Hope this helps.  Also try searching for "binoculars" at

Look up an ITT distributor and buy either their 150 monocular or their
night mariner what ever you can afford. Stay away from the Russian stuff
and some of the American cheapies as they have reconditioned tubes and
you never know how much life is left in them.

From: Gale McMillan <>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Best Scopes?
Date: 20 May 1998 22:51:23 -0400

Keith Johnson wrote:
# I'm working on buying a SR-25.  I was wondering if there were any opinions
# on which scope is the best.  I'd preferably like a night/day.

Be prepared to spend 7000 and up!There are only 2 to conceder. Litton
PVS10 and Our 80MM VisionMaster.These both are Mil spec scopes. If you
wait you can buy the ITT 7201 which I make for about 5000.It is a
commercial grade made for the police. They are trying to open it up to
the public soon. I advise you to stay away from the Japanese Knock off
as they are claiming that they are 3rd gen while they are cannibalizing
the ITT 150 Monocular for tubes and they are a commercial grade second
gen. You can see the specs of our scope at
gale McMillan

From: Gale McMillan <>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night Vision Rifle Scope Q
Date: 20 Nov 1998 19:39:43 -0500

TCole28571 wrote:
 > ...

I can name several companies that got their start building devices based
on reworked salvage tubes. When Litton bought out Vero and Intervac and
closed them down to eliminate competition  all the red tag tubes (that's
tubes that had bad enough wrong with them that they were considered
scrap) was sold off for  a few cents per pound and ended up in devices
sold at gun shows and flea markets as new third gen stuff. To buy ITT and
Litton first line tubes is very difficult and what is normally sold to
commercial manufacturers is the fall outs. That is tubes which will not
meet mil spec on signal to noise and photo response. Speaking as a
manufacturer of top quality night vision I can speak first hand that the
only two tube manufacturers in this country who make third gen tubes are
maxed out with military orders and it is a begging experience to get
tubes out of them.You can buy decent 2nd gen tubes from DEP and Philips
but a 2+ tube will cost as much as  third gen and can't compare with
even the 45 line pair seconds sold in this country. I agree with the
statement that most night vision salesmen were solar heater salesmen
before they were siding salesmen before they were night vision
salesmen.The Knock offs to my patents coming out of Japan are being sold
as 3rd gen and actualy have cannibalized 2nd gen commercial tubes taken
out of the second gen ITT 150 monocular. My advice to any interested
sole who wants NV to buy from reputable dealers (ask for references) and
if it is priced reasonable run!!! keep in mind that an OEM manufacturer
will pay $3000 for 64 line pair tubes so if you find a device for less
you know what your getting.
Gale McMillan

From: Gale McMillan <>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night Vision Rifle Scope Q
Date: 21 Nov 1998 19:35:04 -0500

TCole28571 wrote:
# I certainly enjoyed your reply and would like to pursue this one step further.
# 1. I am relieved to see how passionate you are on this subject. I wish everyone
# in business today shared your enthusiasm.
# 2. I think you should post ITT's night vision standards and educate people that
# there is a right way to judge night vision  - it would sure help alot of
# people, elevate your firm into a market leader and no doubt result in more
# sales for you. People like to buy expensive things from other honest people..
# 3. Any night vision tube with a micro-channel plate when presented for export,
# regardless of country of origin, takes on the attributes of an American made
# tube. I support the State Dep'ts work on non-proliferation and ITAR and would
# hope other responsible citizens do too.

Item 3 is incorrect. Second gen tubes regardless of origin may be
exported on an open commerce license as long as identified.This means
you do not apply for license. Only when installed in weapon sights do
they require an export license from Department of State.Countries
legible to receive intensifier tubes under a GCS license are as
follows.Austrailia,Austria, Belguim, Finland,France, germany, Hong Kong
, 	Ireland, Italy, Japan,Lux. netherlands , New Zealand,Norway Portugal,
Spain Sweden, Switz. Turkey and the UK. Prior to shipping to any legible
A level commodity under a general license the following  statement from
the ultimate consignee. It must include any documenter company
letterhead, The country of destination The importer,and must identify
the importer and must be signed by importer and kept on file The
following statement must be included"We WILL IMPORT THESE COCOM
in Commerce Control list 6A02A-6A03a supplement no. !CCL165. The
following item is controlled by Dept of  State. A micro channel plate
for image Amplification with a hole pitch of less than 25 micrometers,
15,000 holes per plate.Peak responce exceeding 10050. NM GaAs or GalnAs
photo catode.To be specific this means 3rd gen.

From: Gale McMillan <>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night Vision
Date: 16 Mar 1999 11:09:19 -0500

Third gen tubes shut themselves down when struck by bright light and come
back on as soon as it is gone. So it won't work, Its not like the 1st and
second gen that would flare and go blind. When the 3rd gen tubes shut down
they don't go out they just dim slightly. You can turn them on in daylight
with out doing harm

From: Gale McMillan <>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night Vision: NVPS-10?...
Date: 6 Apr 1999 19:31:34 -0400

I buy ITT intensifier tubes at OEM rate and am paying $2950 for the current
production 64 line pair tubes so I would be very suspect that you are not
getting the current production tubes in the scope you are looking
at and are more than likely getting 45 line pair Omnibus 3 tubes or less..

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