From: ((Steven B. Harris))
Subject: Re: GHB is OTC in Canada?
Date: 10 Jul 1995
Newsgroups: sci.med.pharmacy,sci.med,misc.health.alternative,sci.life-extension

In <keving.518.00B1D4AC@primenet.com> keving@primenet.com (Kevin
Goldstein) writes:

Quoting another writer
>>I'm assuming you're referring to the gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB)?
>>I had *not* heard about it being available in Canada, but I *do* remember
>>FDA taking it off the market after finding that it was being abused by
>>body builders in the belief that it induces secretion of human growth
>>hormone in the brain. Whether that is true or not, I never discovered. I
>>believe that some people abusing the chemical went into catatonia,
>>although I never heard that anyone died from it. I'd be interested to
>>hear a follow-up. I read the reports in MMWR in 1990 or 1991 (I think
>>that's right). I also remember that GHB is structurally similar to GABA
>>(gamma-aminobutyric acid), a neurotransmitter, and that GHB gets across
>>the blood-brain barrier.
>
>That story is just another fairy tale the FDA would like you to believe
>removing GHB from the market has about as much "science" and logic behind it
>as the FDA's permanent removal of tryptophan from the market, because a
>batch from one manufacturer was contaminated.

No, I don't think so.   While the word "catatonia" is subject to
misinterpretation, too large a dose of GHB will put to sleep for a
couple of hours (it's pretty short acting) and you will NOT wake up for
important stuff (like your house burning down).  Before you get to
that state, if you "fight" the urge to sleep, GHB can make you do things
that are characteristic of someone with higher brain functions totally
out-- like pulling all the food out of your freezer in an attempt to
find something to eat, and leaving it all in the sink, thawing.  And
having NO memory of having done this.

No, I don't think GHB is more dangerous than alcohol-- I'm sure it's
LESS dangerous.  Like the Valium class of drugs, it's sort of a
low-danger alcohol, in fact (nobody has died of an overdose-- it's
apparently not nearly so much of a respiratory depressant as ethanol).
But the effects are close enough to alcohol that I'm sure the DEA and
FDA would have been after it long ago if they really knew much about it.

                                                Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Subject: Re: GHB
Date: 03 Dec 1996
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights,alt.drugs.chemistry,rec.drugs.smart,
	misc.health.alternative,alt.support.depression,soc.support.depression

In <32A34284.111C@gespro.com> daniel pelchat <pelchatd@gespro.com>
writes:

>For those who would like to try it just send me a email and we can
>arrange something.  The cost will be around 20$ for 100 grams. I know
>it's almost the same as the others but you can try a little quantity and
>I have to cover the shipping and everything.  I have to take a couple of
>days off to get the products. If you like it we can arrange something
>bigger later at a much better price.
>
>What I will inculde in it is : 	100 grams butyrolactone
>			50 grams NaOH
>			receipe (very simple around 15 minutes to do it)
>			how to use it (very important!)
>			papers to test the PH.
>
>That quantity could last a month if you use it every day.
>
>Once you will have do it one time you will be very confident to find your
>products yourself and make it again with a price as low as 50$ a kilo.
>
>
>					Daniel Pelchat, Quebec City



Or lower, since the butyrolactone is only $24 per kilo even from a high
priced vendor like SIGMA chemical.  Your markup looks like about 1000%.
A pretty stiff charge for information available a number of places, and
for chemicals shipped by a stranger which one cannot, of course, have
any kind of good guarantee about (I at least know where SIGMA IS, and
that they are a big fat company which I can sue if they sell me
something they say is something else; by contrast who the &*%$ are
YOU?).

Some legislator, by the way, started today with a bill trying to get
GHB totally outlawed in California.  The immediate impetus was some
girl in Texas who supposedly died of an overdose.  Nevermind the fact
that she came home walking and talking and complaining of a headache
(when GHB works incredibly fast even on a full stomach, and a dose
large enough to cause her to become comatose would likely not have
allowed her to have time to get home and complain about anything).  And
nevermind that GHB is not much of a respiratory depressant, having
never before caused a death in any of the many people who've
accidentally taken too much of it.  All this is nothing to the fanatics
who are out on the chemical witch hunt again.

   I don't know who is worse-- the profiteers or the legislators.

                                        Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Subject: Re: GHB
Date: 04 Dec 1996
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights,alt.drugs.chemistry,rec.drugs.smart,
	misc.health.alternative,alt.support.depression,soc.support.depression

In <mabehr-0312961802560001@happyland.mit.edu> mabehr@mit.edu (Michael
Behr) writes:

>In article <580nqj$qlc@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
>sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) wrote:
>
>> Or lower, since the butyrolactone is only $24 per kilo even from a high
>> priced vendor like SIGMA chemical.
>
>The thing about sigma, and other big chem supply companies, is that they
>don't sell to anyone but companies, universities, or research
>institutions.  And they check _very_ closely before giving accounts to new
>customers.

  Well, it's true they won't sell to individuals, mostly.  However, how
closely they check "companies" is something I'd like to know.  For sure
they don't send a guy out to your private lab.


>> (I at least know where SIGMA IS, and
>> that they are a big fat company which I can sue if they sell me
>> something they say is something else; by contrast who the &*%$ are
>> YOU?).
>
>what are you going to tell the courts?  I tried using sigma chemicals
>to make an illegal substance which I then ingested (even when they say
>"not to be used on humans")?

   Well, GHB's not illegal quite yet...     Naw, you'd have to tell the
courts that SIGMA sold you something that wasn't GHB or butyrolactone
when they said it was.  Even if you are 99% responsible for your bad
effect, deep pockets and joint and several responsibility laws would
still allow you to nail SIGMA for a product error.


>Kimberly Farias.  Yeah, the story just doesn't hold up: Girl goes to
>club, Girl gets a lot of GHB dumped into her drink by a date rapist,
>Girl goes home, complaining that she doesn't feel good, Girl doesn't
>wake up the next morning.
>
>The idea that GHB is a date rape drug is ridiculous.  Any date rapist
>would get bored and leave before his victim fell asleep, if she ever
>did.

   Here I have to disagree.  GHB as the salt acts rather quickly--
nearly as fast as ethanol.  And it would make a reasonably good
"date-rape" drug, though not as good as Rohypnol (for obvious reasons
involving memory formation).  The only thing GHB has on alcohol as a
date rape drug is that the physical dose to do the job can be put into
a single drink, and is also considerably safer to use at doses which
produce near-coma.  I think that single drink would pretty much have to
be a lime margarita, though (see below).

>I suspect that young Kimberly knew what she was taking, and did so
>voluntarily.  None of her friends want to admit that they gave it to
>her/used it themselves, and therefore incriminate themselves, so
>they're just keeping quiet.

Yep.

>Also, she would certainly have realized that her pepsi was not normal
>GHB is tasteless, but the reaction it causes is sort of like alcohol.
>She would have noticed that all of a sudden, her vision was swimming.

   GHB is not tasteless-- the free acid tastes yucky, and the sodium
salt is-- well-- salty (surprise).

>It was a Hard Copy/Extra/American Journal/Real Life report (the same
>report has been on ALL of them.  They just passed the tape around.).
>They don't know anything.  Their only source of information is Mr. &
>Mrs. Farias, and the local cops, none of whom know ANYTHING about GHB.


   For sure.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com (Steven B. Harris)
Subject: Re: GHB
Date: 07 Dec 1996
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights,alt.drugs.chemistry,rec.drugs.smart,
	misc.health.alternative,alt.support.depression,soc.support.depression

In <mabehr-0712960101580001@happyland.mit.edu> mabehr@mit.edu (Michael
Behr) writes:

>No, but they [SIGMA chemical] do check with the zoning board in your
>town to make sure the address you give them for a company is zoned
>correctly.  They also ask for copies of Ceritficates of business, and
>will call the local city hall to confirm that they are authentic.  If
>you are doing research, they need copies of your lab certification
>documents...  And they did ALL of that to a startup company I worked
>for.  I don't know if they require that you pay for the first order
>with a company check or a company credit card (we did,
>just as a matter of course).
>
>That's fairly close checking...


   That's a matter of perspective.  All the things you mention are just
a matter of money and time.  Joe Blow who didn't know a damn thing
about chemistry can rent a building in the nearest industrial park, get
the appropriate city licenses, print up a letterhead, and there you
are.  The only thing that keeps this from happening is expense, which
is out of line for what most Joe Blows want to do with whatever it is
they order from SIGMA.

                                         Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Subject: Re: GHB
Date: 10 Dec 1996
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights,alt.drugs.chemistry,rec.drugs.smart,
	misc.health.alternative,alt.support.depression

In <32ACA023.5F80@ihgp.ih.lucent.com> nq9270300-Myers
<mmyers@ihgp.ih.lucent.com> writes:

>Kev wrote:
>
>>No doubt about that.  I used to drink occasionally.  GHB makes me never
>>want to drink again.  Just feels like crap by comparison (especially the
>>next day).
>
>Funny, one reason my friend and I liked it was because we hardly felt anything
>the next day...
>
>Mark



   Agreed.  In fact a problem with GHB is "rebound waking" at about 4
or 5 hours after a dose.  This is a problem only if you feel you must
sleep longer.  One of the extremely interesting things about GHB is its
ability to give you a full night's sleep (or some reasonable facsimilie
thereof) in 4 or 5 hours.  You can't keep this up for weeks without
feeling it, but you sure can operate well for a few days.  At times
where you may only have 4 hours between when you can go to bed, and
when you MUST get up (say, for an important presentation) GHB can be a
lifesaver.  I'll be sorry if they make it illegal.



                                             Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: bionet.neuroscience,sci.med.pharmacy
Subject: Re: When the FDA behaves like an organised criminal association
Date: 20 Apr 1998 10:06:01 GMT

In <3539cee8.4784595@news.twics.com> patanie@hotmail.com (Patanîe
Pongpâ) writes:

>Dear (...),
>
>Reading the recent book of Dr Ward Dean on
>gamma-hydroxybutyrate(Gamma-OH or G.H.B) I cannot but only think to
>Swiss sociologist Jean Ziegler who wrote this terrible statement:
>
>"The highest form of capitalism is organised crime".
>
>Why? Because the way the FDA has behaved concerning a molecule
>discovered more than 36 years ago,in Europe,and,all of a
>sudden,demonised in the USA,through the active participation of the
>very FDA,can only be labelled as criminal.
>
>The war on Gamma-OH reveals deeper truths and so much that Gamma-OH
>becomes,nearly,a side question.
>It is a whole system which is corrupt,extraordinarily corrupt.
>And the danger about that is that your country is exporting this evil
>system of organised lies to Europe and the world!
>Are we already in the books of George Orwell?
>What do you think???
>
>I am shocked,immensely shocked.
>
>Best thoughts,


COMMENT:

    Don't get too bent out of shape here.  Remember, this is a drug
which is probably too dangerous for the average person to use without
hurting himself at least once with it.  Like alcohol, it wipes out your
higher judgement centers, and then you do really STUPID things for some
time before you conk out.   I have tried to eat frozen food directly
out of the ice box, without opening packages.  The next morning (memory
is pretty well kept) I found ice cream boxes in the sink with tooth
marks in them (in the cardboard).  Other people I know tell similar
completely disinhibited stories.  You can take the stuff in bed, but
when it hits and you get the carbo muchies from it, you're too stupid
to realize you need to stay down for your own protection, because your
IQ is now about 70.   Perhaps 50.

   It's probably a drug you should take in low doses (less than 2
grams) or else have a keeper or handler to make sure you don't hurt
yourself at higher doses.

    I'm a libertarian-- I think drugs should be legal.  But we don't
live in a country where we allow adults to take risks of this sort,
except with alcohol, and that's only by long LONG tradition.  I'm sure
the society isn't ready for GHB, pharmacologically safer than alcohol
though it may be (and certainly is).  I'm REALLY sorry to have to make
that conclusion, because it's such an intensely interesting drug.

                                     Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Subject: Re: GABA vs. GHB ?
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative

In <33F7B131.754@usa.net> T <amyd@usa.net> writes:

>does anybody have any experience with the difference in effects of these
>two. They seem to be close in structure and supposedly affect some of
>the same receptors. Both have reports of GH release and sleep
>improvement. Any other similarities or differences other than GABA might
>not give you a buzz like GHB.



GABA doesn't cross the blood brain barrier well, so you can't get much
from it orally.   Not so, GHB, which is extremely potent at physiologic
doses of a few grams.  GHB also acts at its own unique receptors in the
brain, so it's effects are not just on GABA-nergic transmission.
There's a whole GHB network in the brain.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Subject: Re: GHB kits
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition

In <19970808233301.TAA02962@ladder01.news.aol.com> reach10@aol.com
(Reach10) writes:

>[butyrolactone is something you really do not want to injest at all.
>While the LD50 is fairly high there are unanswered questions about its
>long term toxicity. One method which may be successful in reducing the
>amount of unreacted butytolactone is to boil the final product at 204
>C(butyrolactone's boiling point) until no more bubbles appear. You
>could also recrystalise the final product from alcohol]

---------------------------------------------

Comment: Actually, you are 17 kinds of a fool if you ingest any GHB you
haven't (at minimum) made from reagent grade chemicals, weighed
carefully, pH'ed, and crystallized (not just solidified) to get rid of
the lactone.

I've had to make a fair amount of GHB sodium salt in the course of
research work (I use it in a resuscitation research model on animals).
The stuff is actually quite difficult to crystallize from ethanol, as
it is pretty soluble in it.  If you add acetone to a water mixture of
GHB, all you get is a liquid GHB layer below the acetone, which isn't
much help (although the acetone does tend to wash out some of the
lactone).  The best I've been able to do and still get decent yields is
add a LOT of acetone to about equal weights of ethanol/sodium-GHB,
until fluffy white crystals are obtained.  These need to be filtered
immediately (or at least all fluid poured off them, and washed with
acetone) before they condense again to liquid GHB/alcohol mix in a
layer under the acetone.  Once the acetone is poured off, it pretty
much takes with it all unreacted lactone.

Don't do this around ignition sources, as acetone is a fair fire
hazard.

GHB-sodium salt separated in this fashion will tend sometimes to
liquify, but it solidifies again as it dries.  So does crude GHB with
lactone still in it, and this should not be confused with crystalized
GHB.  It's crude reaction gunk, not fit for any use.

I'm not happy about people experimenting with GHB without a degree in
chemistry and another in medicine, but if you're going to do it, at
least don't be stupid about it.  Crystallize from acetone.  Do NOT take
more than 4 grams at a time.  Do NOT take it anywhere but IN BED.  Do
NOT mix with other drugs (unless you have have all those degrees, etc).


                                 Steve Harris, M.D.

From: reach10@aol.com (Reach10)
Subject: Re: GHB kits
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition

This was obtained by typing in "ghb +synthesis" in www.hotbot.com search
engine.  it was the first listing.


Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: an121141@anon.penet.fi (Alice C. Livingston)
Date: Wed,  8 Mar 1995 16:20:43 UTC
Subject: GHB - a better described synthesis


After no response from anon.penet.fi after five days I have decided to
repost this; I will just have to assume the original was consumed by the
scientologists - anyone else have this problem?

This is an update from a post I made sometime last year.

Informational purposes only etc.

~~~

There has been a lot of talk about GHB on the net of late. I guess this is
just adding to it but I will try to make sure all I mention is correct.
Corrections welcome!

GHB or gamma-hydroxybutyrate is usually prepared in a form called sodium
oxybate which is just the sodium salt of GHB hence its alternative name
sodium gamma-hydroxybutyrate. Just to make things more complicated CAS
refers to this salt as butanoic acid, 4-hydroxy, monosodium salt. In the
earlier abstracts butyric replaces butanoic.

GHB is listed in Merk Ed. 11,8603 under Sodium Oxybate.

Enough of the naming mess, lets have a look at the stucture.

HO-(CH2)3-COOH

This is GHB. For the sodium salt replace the right most H with a Na.
Pretty simple huh?

The precursor to sodium oxybate is called butyrolactone or
gamma-hydroxybutyric acid lactone. It is fairly readily available (at
least where Alice comes from) and not overly expensive. I would estimate
US$20 for 100ml.

It is supposedly an excellent electrolyte for batteries and capacitors and
is used as an intermediate for numerous compounds. See Merk Ed. 11,1596 for
more information.


Here is what she looks like.

                      O
                     / \
                  H2C   C==O
                    |   |
                  H2C---C2H

It should be apparent that opening this ring and a dash of NaO will yield
Na-GHB. Easy? Most certainly. NaOH will open the ring and at the same
time makes our salt and also some H2.

Two pieces of magic for the price of one.

Anyone interested in the mechanism behind the ring opening should be aware
that the butyrolactone is saponified - any organic chem text will give
more information.

Below is what an hour browsing the Chemical Abstracts yielded.

J.Am.Chem.Soc 51,260 (1929) refluxes NaOH and butyrolactone in water for a
few hours and the resulting yield is poor, though the procedure is simple
and therefore probably favoured by some. Summary follows.

16.3g butyrolactone and 7.4g NaOH were disolved in 30cc. of water and
bolied under reflux for three hours. AT the end of this time more water
was added to disolve the salt and the solution was filtered and
evapourated to dryness under reduced pressure. The salt was recrystalised
from alchol. Yield was 11.5g.

CA 107:6774e is better but more difficult method. Summary follows.

15.7g NaOH in 1280ml MeOH was added to 344g gamma-butyrolactone over 1-
1.5h at 40C under an inert CO2 free atmosphere. After stiffing for 3h,
220g of product was collected.

CA 107:39210w is another patent from by the same people as above. It
effectively states the same thing but that the rate of addition was
controlled to maintain a potential of 700mV to prevent the introduction of
a carbonate. Raises more questions than it answers.

CA 59:11234e would be my procedure of choice though Alice is somewhat suspect
of their yields. Summary follows.

To a hot solution of 225ml rectified EtOH, 45ml H2O and 220g NaOH, 489g
gamma-butyrolactone was slowly added and the mixture kept boling for 30
min. The ppt. crystalised from EtOH yielded 560g Na-gamma-hydroxybutyrate.

Here is how Alice applied the above...

To a round bottomed flask suspended in a bath of candle wax heated by an
electric hotplate was placed 10ml EtOH, 4ml H2O (15ml 80% alc/vol Vodka
should substitute okay for these two) with about 10g NaOH.

The weighing of NaOH was done without an accurate scale and was probably
over estimated. Using exactly 10g of NaOH will still mean that it is in
excess thus less should be okay - Alice used this amount to ensure all the
butyrolactone would be reacted.

It is probably unwise to use hardware store lye or whatever due to
possible impurities combined with the fact that relatively large amounts
of GHB which have to be ingested for an effective dose.

A condensor was placed on the flask and Alice waited till all was under
reflux. The NaOH did not completely disolve.

20ml of butryolactone (M=86.09 g/mol; 1 litre=1.13 kg) was slowly added
over the next 15 minutes. By this time most of the NaOH had disolved.

The mixture was kept under reflux for the next 2 hours where upon the
condensor was removed and the EtOH and much of the water was allowed to
boil off - this took place over a period of an hour or so. Good ventilation
is a must at this point.

A white, thick oil remained which was quickly poured out onto a flat surface
and rapidly solidified into a white waxy solid about 5mm thick.

This solid was rather basic due to Alice's excess usage of NaOH so it was
roughly weighed, then placed in about 200ml of hot water in which is
disolved easily. With the aid of litmus paper (remember blue equals
basic) HCl was added till the solution was slightly acidic.

HCl is the ideal acid to add as NaOH + Cl -> H2O + NaCl; that is salty
water (ugh).

Checking the pH of your product is of the uppermost importance. It must be
fairly neutral before you even contemplate ingesting your Na-GHB. Or to
put it another way - if you are really going to fuck up and hurt someone,
having an overly acidic or basic product is how you will do it.

Alice calculated the volume needed to drink for 1.5g of Na-GHB, consumed it
grinning and bearing the intense salty taste (this is due to the NaCl,
Na-GHB is pretty much tasteless when pure) sat, waited for 5 minutes and
never looked at alcohol again :-)

All good fairy tales have a happy ending and this is no exception, being
no longer dependent on alcohol is a delight, better than any prince or
princess!

A second time Alice essentially followed the above procedure but used less
NaOH. The final product was neutral but with some oily liquid which did
not solidify which was assumed to be unreacted butyrolactone which was
poured off ready to be used some other time.

This product was essentially taste free.

Butyrolactone an LD50 of 1.5g/kg in rats, better than that of GHB itself
so it should not be of too much concern, though Alice has corresponded
with a person who suspected that this impurity may be the cause of very
slight headaches which some consumers suffered from the next morning.

A standard dose of GHB is rather hard to determine. Net information
mentions 'half a teaspoon'. Medline seems to indicate that an effective
dose varies greatly from person to person.

Medical use in the treatment of narcolepsy and alcohol withdrawl is almost
invariably 50mg/Kg per day. It is probably safe to assume this is a safe
starting dose.

Reports mention overdosage can result in 'coma and seizurelike activity'.
The mentioned amounts which caused these problems were from .25 of a
teaspoon to 4 tablespoons. Full recovery seems to be universal.

This further goes to show that each persons reaction is very individual.

For more information on the qualitative effects of GHB, ftp to hyperreal.com
and get the file /drugs/depressants/ghb.

Of particular interest here is a posting by rich@weeds.xs4all.nl from the
smart-p mailing list which gives an excellent description of the history,
pharmacology and recreational used of GHB. It is a must-read before you
experiment with the chemical.

Also there is a posting by dk104@cleveland.freenet.edu which is supposedly
a post for a friend, 'Frank', who describes how he combatted alcohol abuse
with GHB and seemingly won.

Alice understand that the author of this post's name was not actually
'Frank' and that he was an alt.psychoactives regular who finally outed
himself as the actual author. If anyone know of his email address please
contact Alice at the anon email address attached.

Alice would appreciate hearing from anyone who has attempted any of the
above, be it tasting or cooking.

Slowly slip away, be careful and most of all have fun!

Love Alice Livingston.

~~~
Alice Livingston
'I am just a truck driver on the information superhighway'



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From: an121141@anon.penet.fi (Alice C. Livingston)
Date: Nov 06 1995
newsgroups: alt.drugs

Here are some corrections and safety tips which correspond to the ghb
synthesis archived at ftp://hyperreal.com/depressants/ghb.synthesis

Perhaps Lamont could update that version with the follow information. I
will give the whole mess of a document a complete overhaul when I get
the time.

Added notes are included in [braces like this]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[...snip...]

It should be apparent that opening this ring and a dash of NaO will yield
Na-GHB. Easy? Most certainly. NaOH will open the ring and at the same
time makes our salt and also some H2.

Two pieces of magic for the price of one.

[well actually some magic and some fantasy as it turns out - no H2 is
evolved]

[...snip...]

The weighing of NaOH was done without an accurate scale and was probably
over estimated. Using exactly 10g of NaOH will still mean that it is in
excess thus less should be okay - Alice used this amount to ensure all the
butyrolactone would be reacted.

[use an accurate scale and use the ratios mentioned in the above chem
abstract. By doing this you will not have to fiddle around with the pH at
all]

[...]

A white, thick oil remained which was quickly poured out onto a flat surface
and rapidly solidified into a white waxy solid about 5mm thick.

[actually the oily substance is clear until it cools into a white solid]

[...]

A second time Alice essentially followed the above procedure but used less
NaOH. The final product was neutral but with some oily liquid which did
not solidify which was assumed to be unreacted butyrolactone which was
poured off ready to be used some other time.

Butyrolactone an LD50 of 1.5g/kg in rats, better than that of GHB itself
so it should not be of too much concern, though Alice has corresponded
with a person who suspected that this impurity may be the cause of very
slight headaches which some consumers suffered from the next morning.

[butyrolactone is something you really do not want to injest at all.
While the LD50 is fairly high there are unanswered questions about its
long term toxicity. One method which may be successful in reducing the
amount of unreacted butytolactone is to boil the final product at 204 C
(butyrolactone's boiling point) until no more bubbles appear. You could
also recrystalise the final product from alcohol]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alice Livingston
'Still softly it floats away'



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From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.psychedelics,sci.med.pharmacy,fr.bio.general,
	bionet.neuroscience
Subject: Re: Gamma-OH and Naloxone
Date: 15 Aug 1998 07:18:00 GMT

In <35d2e272.257297@news.twics.com> patanie@pasdepub.com writes:

>Neurosci Lett 1997 Mar 7;224(1):71-74
>
>Naloxone reverses the inhibitory effect of
>gamma-hydroxybutyrate on central DA release in vivo in
>awake animals: a microdialysis study.
>
>Feigenbaum JJ, Howard SG
>
>Department of Research and Development, American Institute of
>Biotechnology, Elk Grove Village,
>IL 60007-1462, USA.
>
>gamma-Hydroxybutyrate (GHB) is a 4-carbon anesthetic that acts
>primarily by inhibiting presynaptic
>dopamine (DA) release in vivo.


   Nonsense.  GHB causes none of the expect effects of a an
antidopaminergic.  No stiffness, no Parkinsonian symptoms, no
flattening of affect, no blunting of emotions.  It's not a THING like
any neuroleptic.  If anything, its effects in vivo somewhat resemble
gabanergics, such as gabapentin.  But since GHB is a bonafide
neurotransmitter, I imagine that most of its effect is via acting on
receptors made just for it.  In short, it's a brand new class of drug
(in the US, at least), with new effects.

   At appropriate doses it's a short lived disinhibitor, something like
alcohol.  It causes cravings and hunger for carbohydrates, something
like serotonin blockers and THC.  It causes drowsiness and intellectual
blunting, again like alcohol, but without respiratory depression,
somewhat like ketamine.  But it doesn't cause the violence in adults
which can be a result of ketamine and NMDA blockers in general.  In
some ways, it acts like nitrous oxide-- a pure anaesthetic delivered in
subanaesthetic doses.  And that is how it's used in Europe, among many
other things.  It's an excellent hypnotic, but only if used carefully
(you have to take it IN bed, and vow not to get out until you're
asleep).

                                          Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: 1,4-tetramethylene glycol is it toxic?
Date: 28 Feb 1999 12:25:22 GMT

In <7b6att$6m6$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> terence2@aol.com writes:
>
>A supplement is advertised on the net that promises to reduce fat,
>lower cholesterol,give better sleep,etc.
>Its main component is 1,4-tetramethylene glycol(0.4 gms/tablet).
>The max. dosage recommended in a 24 hour period is 10 tablets.
>It also goes by the name 1,4-butanediol.
>Can any one offer any info on the safety of the above chemical?
>                           thanks,terence


   Far as I can tell it's pretty nontoxic.  It's metabolized to GHB, a
neurotransmitter which was sold in health food stores up until 1990,
and which is still sold in Europe. GHB itself does make people sleepy
for a very short time (2-3 hours) and then is gone, without grogginess.
And which does allow you to get more sleep per hour, and get what feels
like 6 hours of sleep in 4.  Very handy.

   It also causes mental impairment at high doses, for a while.  Which
causes people "drunk" on it to do stupid things if they do anything
other than go to bed.  And though it's not the respiratory depressant
alcohol is, and isn't nearly as dangerous or addictive, it's been
banned in some places as a "date rape" drug (GHB is a sodium salt and
tastes like salt: about the only way to get a big enough dose to knock
somebody out into alcohol would be to put it in a lime margarita.
Seems to me the DEA could have saved a lot of money just warning women
not to drink lime maragaritas with strange men in lonely places.  But
no.

    I suspect the DEA will get wise and crack down on it as a GHB
precursor pretty soon.  1,4 butanediol is, BTW, rather slowly
transformed to GHB, and therefore doesn't have some of the advantages
of acting quickly and being gone quickly.

   The "reduce fat" stuff is pure hype. GHB causes carbohydrate
cravings, and is as likely to make you gain.  The fat loss stuff is
from some papers which found GHB causes growth hormone release.  But
it's all theoretical.

From: "Steve Harris" <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com>
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,sci.med
Subject: GHB Re: Niacin and Liver Damage (HA!)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:48:40 -0700
Message-ID: <at11kt$eor$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

"Paul Chefurka" <paul@chefurka.com> wrote in message
news:lt67vu4ig93kcku2sqdvic6c66b34hqnag@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002 00:48:42 +0000, Dave Bird <dave@xemu.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> > BTW, is the "ghb" gamma-hydroxy butyrate (GABA precursor)?  what's the
> > connection??
>
> It's a date-rape drug.  I didn't notice this thread was being cross-posted
> to that ng or I'd have trimmed the list.
>
> Paul



It's not a date rape drug. It's still sold in Europe, and unless you're
willing to postulate the Europeans enjoy being raped or encouraging rape,
you're going to have to revise your ideas.

Yes, GHB (sold in health food stores until 1990 in the US) did get smeared
as a "date rape drug" by those who wanted to make is as illegal as LSD
(which they succeeded in doing, amazingly).  Just like Rohypnol (also still
sold in Europe). But this only means that drugs (think Thalidomide) can be
subjected to witchhunts like people can, and since drugs can't defend
themselves, they are subject to mob rule and false imprisonment, too.

Much to the loss of society. When it was legal, I was using GHB as part of a
very successful resuscitation cocktail in animal research-- it damps out
post anoxic seizure activity beutifually and with no side effects. Now, I
can't get the stuff, courtesy of the asses to said it had no legitimate
recognized medical use.

Well, they are right-- it doesn't. And if you can keep experimenters from
getting it, it never will.

SBH