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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Stolen Suburbans
From: Robert Bastow <>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:41:47 GMT

Erich Coiner wrote:

> It sounds like you guys need to build the device I saw at my Uncles
> Ranch in Oklahoma. (Just outside of wide spot known as Byers, NE of
> Paul's Valley but I digress)
> My sister in law dubbed this thing the "heifer hefter"
> Cows did not like this machine but it didn't seem to hurt them.
> Seems a bit rough for horses but you never know.
> Erich

Sounds like cows and maybe horses have the same weak spot as dogs do.

From experience I can assure matter how nasty, vicious, or
powerful a dog is, if you can manage to grab it around the mid-section
and lift it bodily off the floor, it is "game over".  The brute will hang
immobile in your arms...they don't like losing contact with the ground
and go totaly to pieces when they do. It is up to you to figure out where
to go from there.

The fastest way to immobilise, and kill a vicious dog is to grab its
front paws and jerk its legs apart as far as they will go, perpendicular
to its chest.  This collapses its chest and lungs and compresses its
heart.  Failing that thrust your hand far back into its mouth and grab
hold of its lower jaw.  With your other hand, grab its upper jaw, and
tear the two apart.

In case anyone is wondering if I am a dog hater or sadist, let me assure
you, quite the opposite.  I love dogs, I breed and train Dobermans, I
speak "dog" and given the choice, most times I prefer the company of a
dog to that of a human being.

But in this world of "Trained attack dogs", brutalised pit bulls, inbred
shepherds, and a general media overhype, I feel that the thinking person
should understand the general risk and remedies.  The dog hasn't been
born that could take down and kill a knowledgeable, fit, and determined
adult Human Being. Note: I didn't say it couldn't hurt you, it can..big


Robert Bastow

FWIIW,  Hoping it may save someone's ass in the future.

Robert Bastow

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Stolen Suburbans
From: Robert Bastow <>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:37:15 GMT

Mike Graham wrote:

>........................................................ though I've used the
> 'throat jab' method to train dogs to not bite (these aren't viscious
> dogs, just young dogs that haven't lost the puppy habit of nipping
> fingers etc.; my young beagle used to always grab my nose with those
> needle-sharp teeth of his.  OW!).  Anyway, when he goes for my fingers
> I stick them down his throat.  Doesn't hurt him; he gags then jumps
> back into the fray.
> Mike Graham

We certainly have the same approach to training dogs.  A well bred
Doberman has a genetic program to guard, never to attack!  Sure they have
the equipment, speed and power, to make a real mess of someone. Not that
I fancy either but I would rather take on a pit bull that a Dobe. Pit
bulls instinctively grab and hang on and that gives you the chance to
disable it. Dobes slash repeatedly, at hight speed, will never let you
"get inside" and would cut you to ribbons!  Except they don't have the
instinct to do that..they make an exceptionally good guard dog, but the
only way to make an "attack" dog out of a dobe is to brutalise it..and I
mean BRUTALISE!!  I know this is sickos!! Of course I am
excluding the cross bred and inbred kind of "Junkyard Dog" from this

I brought up all my pups to be unaware of the fact that they had a
powerful weapon in their teeth, and NEVER to use them around people.
This starts right at the puppy stage when any amount of rough and tumble
is acceptable, but the instant they nip it is corrected by a tap of the
finger on the nose..every single time without fail.  Trained this way
(and in obedience etc. of course) the Dobe is a wonderful family dog..all
my kids were brought up with dobes...who were very protective but liked
nothing better than to rough and tumble with the kids. They never used
their superior strength, and NEVER nipped at them!  Even when poked up
the bum with a pencil, or being ridden like a motor cycle, with their
ears used as the handle bars and throttle!!  When pushed too far , they
would simply dump the child and withdraw.  They loved riding in vehicles
and I wouldn't have hesitated to leave a brace in my Bronco parked in
downtown Atlanta (temperature permitting), with the door unlocked!  Ain't
NOBODY gonna mess with that truck!

Robert Bastow

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Stolen Suburbans
From: Robert Bastow <>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:40:43 GMT

Mike Graham wrote:

>   I'm 6' 300 lbs.  I've had experienced horse folks gape at the way I
> can anchor a horse (i.e. keep them from going anywhere). ..............

>   I had the halter rope quite slack, because she calmed down that way, and
> anyway I just braced myself and when she hit the end of the rope she
> flipped right sideways off her feet.

Hey, I guess this guy wasn't kidding when he said he was a bouncer in a biker

I had nasty reminder of the power of horses. (don't you love it when they
stand on your foot and the harder you push 'em the more they bear down..)

Many years ago I was going through a "horsey" phase and was into point to
point and hunter trialing.  I had a big, (17 1/2 hands) rangy,
mean,sonofabitchin' , thoroughbred, ex-steeplechaser, called Tosca.  I
got him cheap, when they retired him early, with a split hoof, which we
fixed with a bar-shoe.

I was the only person he wouldn't try to kill in his loosebox.  He tried
it a couple of times and then we had a "Come to Jesus" meeting and he
never tried it again..with me!  The compensation was that this corn-fed
fellah could run like the wind
..flat out over fences, across best thing to s*x......Come to
think of it....8^)

Anyhoo, the only other person who could handle him in the paddock was a
young slip of a lass who had the gift of hores talking. Mind you, if she
had whispered an' cooed in MY ear the way she did HIS I would have
followed her ANYplace she wanted to take me. Until , one morning she was
leading him out for exercise, with a rope halter wrapped around her hand.
For some unknown reason Tosca spooked and tossed his head.  The girls
thumb was torn clean out of its socket!!!

Robert Bastow

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Stolen Suburbans
From: Robert Bastow <>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:49:22 GMT

Paul Amaranth wrote:

> >  I don't like hearing about people actually *beating* horses, but if
> >you give them a light punch in the side of the nose *very* quickly
> >after they do something wrong (within three seconds) then it's very
> >effective.  

I don't like to hear about anybody beating anything living, so please
don't get the impression that I beat my horse. Our "come to Jesus meeting" 
lasted a whole lot less than three seconds!! He came at me, in the loose 
box, teeth bared, determined to rip my face off.  For a split second it was 
him or me!  

At the time I was an pretty good, amateur, light heavyweight boxer.(Jeez! 
Where did this other 100Lbs come from??) My instincts took over and I nailed 
him at the side of his jaw!  (a la Blazing Saddles!)  Knocked all 17 1/2 hands 
of him flat on his ass! Never had a problem thereafter..but had to quit 
boxing because I broke just about every bone in my hand!! ! Went to the ER
with my right ring finger sticking out the palm of my hand!

Robert Bastow

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