Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? From: John De Armond Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 19:29:17 GMT Michael Lagae <lagae@apple.com> writes: >Hi, >I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding glass >cutting band saws. >I saw a post in rec.crafts.misc (I believe) about a year ago from >someone who seemed very pleased with a stained glass cutting band >saw. However, I!ve talked to a few glass dealers who claim that >they cut very slowly (one inch/minute) and really aren!t worth it >unless you need to make very integrate cuts which would be >impossible to do otherwise. Yes, we have a Diamond Lazer 1000 saw which is a chinese clone of the Gryphon unit. It works very well and we are quite pleased with it. It's speed is dependent on the thickness and hardness of the glass. For thin fusable glass (what I usually use it with), it cuts several inches per minute. Even regular stained glass cuts satisfactorilly fast. It is NOT as fast as scoring-and-breaking but then again, you can't score a spiral or other complex shape. My experience is most stained glass dealers disparage the products they either can't get or don't make money on. >I!ve only actually seen one such band saw. I don!t recall the >brand, but it didn!t seem all that durable, was a rather small >table top unit and was extremely expensive; around $500. The only >feature that set it apart from other band saws is that it had a >water reservoir around the lower wheel. The Gryphon saw was cloned because their price was so outrageous. Strangely enough, Gryphon's saw is now reasonably priced. We paid about $200 for our saw. I have used several other brands including the very expensive german unit and I like the Lazer the best. It is fast and deceptively rugged. Accomidations for the diamond blade are subtle but numerous and range from the tensioning system to the rubber rollers and teflon guides. >I'd like to get back into making stained glass lamps and the idea >of being able to saw quickly through glass is appealing. However, >I'm leery of purchasing a hobbyist type of machine. I!d be much >more inclined to spend that much or more for a good quality tool >that could be used for other materials as well. Sawing really isn't a substitute for pieces that can be scored and cracked. The speed of scoring is vastly superior. On the other hand, if you have a curved cut on a $50 piece of glass, it is nice not to risk a spurrious crack. >So, my questions are: >2. Does anyone have any experience with any other tools that >could be used to cut glass? Does anyone make glass cutting blades >for larger band saws or scroll saws? The pantograph-based scoring machines work well. Gryphon makes a fairly expensive scoring machine that seems to have some merit. IT has a pneumatic driven scoring wheel and a variable speed rubber drive wheel under it. The idea is to feed the glass in much as you would to a band- saw. The score is deep and accurate. I am investigating having diamond blades made for a Delta woodworking saw but I've yet to find a suitable price. The conversion requires more than just the blade. Things such as rubber rollers and frictionless guides as well as a water system. I'm experimenting with CO2 laser cutting but the work is in its earliest stage. It looks to have some possibilities. BTW, there is a stained glass mailing list, glass@dixie.com. Subscribe to glass-request@dixie.com. Put your email address on the Subject: line. John Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? From: John De Armond Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 18:17:53 GMT johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (johnm) writes: >I agree with the glass dealer. I have not seen the bandsaw but I have >seen many glass saws. The problem is class can not be cut a we think of >it from having experience with things like wood or plastic. That is why >most glass is cut by scoring. Some very intricate cuts can be made with >scoring, check out a stain glass expert. Glass cutting with a saw is a >grinding process. Typically diamond abrasives are used. There is a certain danger in posting about things one has no experience or first hand knowledge about. Perfect example. The diamond bandsaw cuts glass through a combination of abrasion and spalling. The chips removed from the stock are much larger than the grit of the blade (as you would have known had you ever actually used a diamond saw.) and therefore the cutting speed is much faster than what could be achieved by abrasive action alone. >of cut material is removed in powder instead of a chip the processes just >can not be too fast with causing high stresses in the glass. This is absolutely false. Indeed, quite the opposite is true. I have a homemade glass slicing saw that uses a thin 2" diameter diamond blade rotating at 25,000 rpm. That is, a rim velocity of (2*pi*25000) = 157,000 feet per minute. This saw is as smooth as silk and cuts glass about as fast as a radial arm saw cuts an equivalent thickness of wood. >Bandsaw blades wear as the revolve due to the bending around the wheels. >Priced any diamond blades lately? My 7 1/4 circular saw blade cost over >$100. I am sure the bandsaw blade would cost much more. In fact if I made >the bandsaws I would give the user the saw as long as I could sell him >the blades!! Home Depot sells a 7-1/4" diamond blade for $60. Irrelevant. The blade for my diamond band saw costs $40. In the two years we've owned the saw which has been in almost daily use, there has been no discernable wear. I have broken the blade a couple of times but it is a 10 minute process to silver-solder it back together again. I recently received a notice from the company that makes the blade. They announced a new stainless steel substrate blade for $40 and a price cut to $20 for the soft metal substrate blade. They describe the stainless steel blade as a lifetime blade. I believe it. Somehow I don't think the saw maker would give away a $200 saw in order to sell even one $20 blade. In general, diamond abrasives are as cheap as others and are getting cheaper. I buy most of my diamond abrasives from the Truebite corp in New York. Drills and burrs suitable for use in a dremel tool costs typically $7. A 4" diamond hole saw to be used in a drill press costs all of $60. John Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Diamond Bandsaw Blades From: John De Armond Date: Tue, 07 Dec 93 05:48:28 GMT jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH A. ZELINSKI) writes: > To John De Armond, WD4OQC: > Would you kindly post the name(s) of the mfgr. or distributor of the > Stainless backed diamond bandsaw blades you referred to in your earlier > posting? I would find such a blade very useful -*especially*- at the price > you mentioned. Coincidentally I got a flyer from these folks today. Unfortunately there has been a small price increase. The stainless steel blade is now $89.95. The old blade is now $60. The Gryphon-clone saw, the Diamond Laser 1000S (an enhanced version of my saw) is $295. Other than kicking myself for not buying earlier, the blade increase is of no major concern to me since the blade seems to last forever. The company is Stained Glass Workshop in Syosset, NY. 800 669-7151. In NY, 516 496-7593. John Message-ID: <3AF49DD5.21C863A8@bellsouth.net> From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass Subject: Re: Tile saw for cutting fused 1/4 inch glass Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 20:41:57 -0400 Cellar Art wrote: > > Hi All, > > I know that this subject comes up every now and then but I am still slightly > confused. I want to get saw to use for making straight cuts on fused 1/4 > inch thick glass. I am under the impression that a tile saw from Home Depot > with a special diamond lapidary blade will do the trick. Will this be a > good solution? I've also heard horror stories of the tile saw shattering > the glass with a special glass blade that was recommended by the tile saw > manufactures Where do I get a good lapidary blade that will make a fine cut > that will only need to be fire polished and that will fit a tile saw. The > tile saw blades are 7" and most lapidary blades are either 6" or 8". We've had good luck using the Plasplug tile saw. HOWEVER. Throw away the junk chinese made blade that comes with it and get a good american made unit. Expect to pay $40-60. The differences are manifold, the major one being the much tighter concentricity tolerance and balance. The junk blade will be out of round and will pound the glass into breaking. When you mount the blade, mount it carefully, measuring the runout. Use the slop between the blade and spindle to perfectly center the blade before tightening the nut. Do not EVER run the blade dry on glass regardless of the package label unless you like to have diamond pixie dust everywhere except on the blade where it belongs. I have also found that it is more satisfactory if the blade is slowed a bit. These saws use universal motors so motor-qualified light dimmers will work fine. The overhead fan speed controllers that Home Depot sells works fine. As does the Lutron commercial grade light dimmers, the ones with the large heat sinks, also available from Home Depot, etc. I use a variac (variable auto transformer) which works best but I'd not go out and buy one if I didn't already have it. All these blades will have a little residual runout so it is important to feed the glass in slowly. If you force it in against the blade, it WILL crack the glass. Hold the glass tightly to the table or else the vibration is liable to slap the glass around and crack it. Fed slowly and firmly, breakage is almost nonexistent. John |
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