From: jbrandt@hpl.hp.com (Jobst Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: How do you pronounce....?
Date: 17 Nov 1998 18:44:04 GMT

In this light we might consider some rules of Italian pronunciation
rather than investigating specific names and words.

Italian has no J,K,W,Y as such but generates these and other sounds
with combinations.

hard c / k = ch as in Chianti [kie-ahn'-tie]
         ch is used to make a hard c before e and i
soft c = ci as in Cino Cinelli [chee'-no] [chin-ell'-ie]
         the soft c occurs with ci and ce, c is otherwise hard
hard g = gh as in Ghisallo [gie-sal'-oh], spaghetti
         gh is used to make a hard g before e and i
soft g / j = gi as in Gianni [jah'-ny] or [johnny] the "i" is part
         of the "j" sound and is not pronounced preceding another vowel
y-sound = gn as in Bagno [bahn'-yo]
         or gl as in Bivigliano [biv-il-yah'-no]

The accent falls on the penultimate syllable unless an accent' is
used or the word is a composite such as Ferrovia, where the two
words ferro and via retain their identity [fe'-ro..vi'-ah] (railway)
Italy has many towns with foreign language names that don't follow
these rules or have an accent such as Forli' or Temu'.

Colorful names like Cinque Terre, Civitavecchia, Riomaggiore and
many others can be pronounced by the above rules.

Jobst Brandt      <jbrandt@hpl.hp.com>

From: jbrandt@hpl.hp.com (Jobst Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: How do you pronounce....?
Date: 17 Nov 1998 21:11:40 GMT

Sheldon Brown writes:

>> In this light we might consider some rules of Italian pronunciation
>> rather than investigating specific names and words.

> Thanks, that was helpful...but the one that always confuses me is
> what to do about words that end in "e"?

All vowels are pronounced with the exceptions I mentioned.  Therefore,
a trailing e is pronounced and is a long e as in Fiesole
[fie-ay'-so-lay] or Firenze [fi-ren'-zay] (Florence).  The town Faenza
is pronounced with all vowels, the ae not making a new sound
[fah-en'-zah].

a = [ah]
b = [bay]
c = [say]
d = [day]
e = [ay]
f = [eff]
g = [gay]
i = [ie]
o = [oh]
u = [ooh]

Just as in English, there are long and short forms of vowels and some
of the same rules apply.  Double t's, l's, n's, etc make preceding
vowels short although in English we append a silent e to lengthen them,
as in "bitter" "bite" "bit".  English has more exceptions.

Jobst Brandt      <jbrandt@hpl.hp.com>

From: jbrandt@hpl.hp.com (Jobst Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: How do you pronounce....?
Date: 17 Nov 1998 21:21:25 GMT

Stella Hackell writes:

>> Colorful names like Cinque Terre, Civitavecchia, Riomaggiore and
>> many others can be pronounced by the above rules.

> "Cinque Terre" looks French and would be pronounced (very
> approximately) Sahnk Terr. Do the Italians pronounce it according to
> the Italian rules, Chink-ay Terr-eh?

Yes, but they say [chink'-way].  You can see where this region is on
the map shown at:

http://city.net/maps/view/?mapurl=/countries/italy

The coast between La Spezia [spay'-tsia] and Monaco [Mo'-na-co] is a
mixture of french and italian, having switched sides now and then in
antiquity.

Jobst Brandt      <jbrandt@hpl.hp.com>

From: jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
Subject: Re: Tap test to identify butted tubing
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 07:04:38 GMT

Bruce Mc? writes:

> And finally how is Pogliaghi pronounced?  I have heard "Poy-ah-ghee".

Pol-ya'gee.  Unfortunately "gee" in this case is like "guie" we not
having the Italian rule that "gi" is a soft "g" while "ghi" is a hard
"g".  Typically names like "Tartaglia" or "Bataglia" whose "taglia"
rhymes with the "talio" in "battalion" or "Italian" which would be
written as "Itaglian" in Italian.

Jobst Brandt    <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org>

From: jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
Subject: Re: Pronounciation guide
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Message-ID: <fGB88.17835$TI3.170351@typhoon.sonic.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:43:55 GMT

Nigel Grinter writes:

In Italian there is no J,K or Y and chi is pronounced kai and ghia
a hard g as in Karmann Ghia.  In contrast, gi/ge is a j while ci/ce
is ch as in church.  ciaina would bepronounced china.

> Anyone know how to say (Please excuse possible mis-spellings):

> Dedacciai?      deh-da-chai'  acciaio := steel
> Ciocc?          The umlaut on the "o" makes this an odd one
> Bottecchia?     bow-tek'-ia
> Guerciotti?     gare-cho'tty
> Gios?           joess
> Croche D'Aune?  crosh-down'
> Dura Ace?
> Fir?            feer
> Mavic?          mah-veek'
> Sapim?          sah-peem  (an acronym) sa: company, p i m: initials
> Rohloff?        roll'-off
> Dia Compe?
> Wolber?         wol-bear
> Sedis?          say-dee'

> And last but not least:

> Jobst?   yobst

> I ask because I have heard all of the above pronounced at least two
> quite different ways.

At least two if not many more.

Jobst Brandt  <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org>  Palo Alto CA