From: jbrandt@hpl.hp.com (Jobst Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: tri vs road geometry
Date: 16 Aug 2001 19:41:11 GMT

Andres Muro writes:

> I have been experimenting with road position, and found that I get
> more pwer moving the saddle forward and I spin a lot better. I have
> short legs. Yet, I don't want to get closer to my bars. My question
> is: if I set up a tri frame with road componets, just like a road
> frame, what difference would I notice in terms of handling. would it
> be twitchier, less responsive, what?

I think the main reason Tri bicycles are the way they are is that the
athletes are primarily runners and not bikies.  From my experience and
that of others who have toured with me on longer trips, I find that
walking and running after long riding, with almost no walking, makes
running difficult and painful.  Bicycling coaches don't want their
athletes to swim or run for good reason.  There is a conflict and I
believe I see it in the tri-athlete position on a bicycle.  Besides, a
tri-athlete is no match for even an average bikie on a bicycle.

Jobst Brandt    <jbrandt@hpl.hp.com>

From: jbrandt@hpl.hp.com (Jobst Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: tri vs road geometry
Date: 17 Aug 2001 16:23:21 GMT

Jon Isaacs writes:

>> Besides, a tri-athlete is no match for even an average bikie on a
>> bicycle.

> You might ask several slightly stronger than average bikies like
> Steve Hegg and Chris Horner how they feel about Jurgen Zack and his
> ability as a bike rider.

And you might take the norm as an indicator, not an outlyer, who may be
the best in his field.  I have had my opportunity to ride with
triathletes whom I met on bike tours in the Alps.  With touring bag
and bing an old man, they were not fast although they told of events
in which they placed high.

> From what I understand Jurgen can more than hold his own.

So what!

> Michellie Jones is another strong cyclist who is a triathlete.
> Lotta guys eat her dust when she is out for a ride.

> Just for those bikies who want to switch over, the record Ironman
> bike split is 4hr 14 min for the 112 miles this is a 56 min 20 sec
> 40 km TT.

If she's in good tri form, she probably isn't in good bike form.
Besides, I don't see many women riding in top category mens bicycle
races as your statement would suggest.  How does she do in mens
bicycle races?

Jobst Brandt    <jbrandt@hpl.hp.com>

From: jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
Subject: Re: Best Climbing Cassette?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:46:30 GMT

Mike Jacoubowsky writes:

>> That is true for all except Pacific Grade east to west and Sonora
>> Pass in both directions.  Wards Ferry is also a bit steep toward
>> Groveland after crossing the river.  The point is that people do
>> not easily recognize that their inability to climb is not a lack of
>> gears but cardio-vascular insufficiency that appears to the
>> individual as legs not capable of pushing the grade.

> I've been thinking about this, believing there's a lot more to it
> than simple cardio-vascular capability, and relating it to my own
> personal experience (where I can frequently out-climb others in
> better shape).  But an even better example would be the large number
> of customers we have who are exceptional runners, but many can't
> climb hills well.  I would think it difficult for a strong runner
> *not* to have a great cardio-vascular capability, yet many can do
> endless miles on flat or rolling terrain, but dread hills.

All this is predicated on being in good training for pedaling.
Muscles trained for running or swimming conflict with the basic
problem to such an extent that people have created races (tri) that
mix them to determine who can average the best.  Tri races produce
poor results for all three disciplines and as those of us who competed
in running, swimming and bicycling, may recall, our coaches warned us
to not engage in the "other" sports in order to not tie up muscles.
It is obvious to most people how different swimmer's legs look from
Bicyclist's legs.

The clash between these disciplines is so apparent that we see odd
positions and techniques in triathlete races, the competitors muscles
crying out for help in whatever form is available.  Most of these
athletes would not do well in a club TT or hillclimb, and those that
would are ones that most of us could not match if they focussed on
bicycling alone.

Jobst Brandt    <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org>