From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Help how can I save my drowned Honda eu1000
Message-ID: <tb09tugqdtbbiom3hcr0mcbfclqq6mch12@4ax.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:23:53 -0500

There are really two separate issues - what the water does to the engine and
what it does to the electronics.  The engine is rather straightforward.  Drain
the oil, carb and gas.  New oil, new gas and if there is any water present
when you remove the spark plug, some oil in the plug hole.  Turn it over a few
times with the starter with the plug out to distribute the oil.  Turn the
whole generator upside down, sideways, etc to distribute the new oil on all
the internal parts.

The water in the electronics presents two separate problems - the water is
conductive when it is still there and the residue left after it evaporates is
also conductive.  Heating the unit will get rid of the water but not the
residue.  If the electronics are potted, there will be no problem.  There is,
however, the problem of water getting in the windings and leaving the residue.
There is the additional problem, since the alternator is inside the flywheel,
of water being trapped against the stator and creating enough rust to lock the
flywheel.

The most immediate problem is to get rid of the water to stop the rust.  heat
the unit by whatever means are available.  A hair dryer and a large bag, if
nothing else is available.  The unit should become very hot to the touch and
should be held at that temperature for several hours.  make sure there is no
gas in the unit while heating.  Take the oil filler out so that any  water
vapor inside the engine can escape.

This stops the progress of damage but does not reverse any damage already
caused nor does it address the conductive residue problem.  Addressing these
problems will require partial disassembly.  Someone must inspect the
electronics to see if they are potted or conformal coated.  If not, the boards
should be washed in pure grain alcohol (PGA)(Everclear from the liquor store)
and then baked.  The alternator windings should be inspected for residue and
meggered to detect electrical leakage.  If there is any, wash the windings in
PGA and bake.

Many honda connectors can trap water so I'd want to break open each connection
and inspect for water.  Again, washing with PGA and baking addresses the
problem.

Baking involves holding the part above the boiling point of water (212 deg F)
for several hours.  I use a large domestic oven in my shop for that purpose
and bake at about 250 deg.

Unless you can do this sort of work yourself, it may be cheaper to just
replace the unit.  If you're willing to replace the unit if necessary, then
you can gamble and just do the engine stuff above, then heat the unit for a
few hours and try it out.  If it works, you got lucky.  If not, then buy the
new one.

A little bit less of a gamble is to do the engine stuff, heat the unit for a
few hours, then open the unit up and megger (or have someone megger) the
alternator stator.  If it passes muster, then the unit will likely work.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Help how can I save my drowned Honda eu1000
Message-ID: <q8i9tus4dghcpqf86v3ajb5u436k4vklg8@4ax.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:19:37 -0500

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:48:24 -0800 (PST), DonLampson@webtv.net (Guess Who?)
wrote:

> Neon
>   It's nice to see you back on the board again.  I worried about those
>twisters scattering your restaurant all over the state!   It's horrible,
>how much suffering, and loss, the recent storms caused back
>there....................

That was a few counties over.  We just happened to be out in that area on our
first trip in my mom's new MH.  Missed the tornados.  Just got some gentle
rocking of the rig and a LOT of rain..

>  Unless those folks with the marinated Honda generator, have oodles of
>time,  they'd be better off buying a new genset.

yep.

>  Too bad they can't trade it to you,  on credit at the pig palace....
>You could probably turn the deal into another SMS merit badge,  by
>creating a machine out of it,  that could make cole slaw  -  out of old
>newspapers!

 :-)  I HAVE been wanting to get my hands on an EU1000 with a defunct
inverter.  I want to install a different controller of my design to turn it
into a quick charger for my EVs.  I'm too SMS to actually buy a new one to
hack on :-)

Of course, the cole slaw chopper is an interesting alternative.  Hmmm.

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Help how can I save my drowned Honda eu1000
Message-ID: <g1h9tuksdn5l3flhdf2f5v300a9vnkltk7@4ax.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:13:24 -0500

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:48:10 -0800, "Ben Hogland" <benhogland@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Neon John" <johngdDONTYOUDARE@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:tb09tugqdtbbiom3hcr0mcbfclqq6mch12@4ax.com...
>> Someone must inspect the electronics to see if they are potted or
>> conformal coated.  If not, the boards should be washed in pure grain
>> alcohol (PGA)(Everclear from the liquor store) and then baked.
>
>Pure grain alcohol, eh? I have to disagree. I'd never seen the need to do
>that and if anything that stands the possibility of  ruining the laminate on
>the boards. It is NOT normal procedure, industry wide, for cleaning residue
>off boards. Residue can be conductive but that depends on the residue. Even
>if it was sitting in dirty water, washing in soap and water is all I would
>recommend. Chances are, it doesn't even need that.

You know, Ben, I never post any procedure like that which I have not already
used.  Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about.  There is, of
course, no "industry wide cleaning standard".  PGA is the standard for
cleaning boards in the nuclear industry, particularly boards involving very
high impedance circuits. I evaluated the various solvents for such board
cleaning for TVA back in the 70s.  PGA yielded the lowest leakage result of
anything I tested, including the fancy freons that generally aren't available
now.  As for damaging the laminate, God, how can I keep from laughing?

The worst part is recommending soap and water.  This ain't no controlled
environment PCB assembly line and the components don't still have their
assembly seals.  A little PGA inside a relay can or under a cap does no harm,
in sharp contrast to what highly conductive soap residue would do.  As
important, if the standing water had an oil film on it (with a submerged
generator?  Banish the thought), soap and water would have little to no
effect.  Crazy advice.

I have quite a bit of experience in recovering dunked generators by virtue of
my moonlighting in my friend's electric motor shop. Said shop has the contract
for the local utility.  They tend to drop portable generators down in ditches
filled with water, sewer, etc with alarming frequency.  I outlined what we do
in the shop (including cleaning with PGA, preceeded by stoddard solvent if the
dunking involved a lot of grease) with one exception.  We normally finish off
a stator with a VPI dip-and-bake.  I made a wild assed assumption that she'd
not have the dip chambers and bake out ovens.  I'm sure she'll correct me if
I'm wrong.

Just out of curiosity, Ben, how many dunked gennys have you successfully
repaired?

>
>Laurie, do yourself a favor, don't believe everything you read here on the
>newsgroup.

You're right on that point.  Your post is a perfect example.

>Best to take it to a dealer/shop for them to fix it up so you
>don't take some wrong advice here and screw it up even worse...

Reflecting on some of the stuff I've seen come out of local small engine
shops, I can only shake my head and say "yaaaa, riiiight!"  The least you
could do if you're going to send her to a shop is to recommend an actual honda
authorized repair depot that employs Honda trained and certified mechanics.

John