From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: what type of glue...
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:45:28 -0500
Message-ID: <q5ah02thaigjkbdu1alu96b557t4ftunc5@4ax.com>

On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:01:22 +0000 (UTC), enigma <enigma@empire.net>
wrote:

>i have some old Matchbox trucks (about 30-40 years old) that
>my son & i want to play with, but the tires keep falling off
>(due to age i guess). what type of glue can i use to fix this
>problem?
> the 'hubs' are a hard plastic & the tires are a rubbery
>feeling plasic (i don't think they're actually rubber anyway).
> the problem is especially bad on the construction vehicles.
>lee

I'd think that some of the air-cured polyurethane adhesives would
work.  One I like because it doesn't swell when curing is the 3M 5600
marine caulk available most everywhere including Wallyworld.  This
stuff remains pliable but sticks like stink on sh.....  When cured, it
is somewhat like RTV except that it adheres about a thousand times
better.

If you think you might need to remove it, go down a grade or two.  I
think the next grade down is something like 3M 3300.  It's not as
tough but can be pulled loose.

RTV would be my distant second choice because it isn't all that
strong.  The unfilled (clear) version has the best adhesion.  The
colored and white versions are filled with fumed silica and dyes which
reduce the bonding strength. Of the clears, the thinner versions have
less fillers and thus stick better.  When RTV is appropriate I use Dow
"self leveling" RTV that is about the consistency of cold syrup.  With
this stuff, usually the RTV itself tears before it debonds from the
substrates.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: what type of glue...
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:55:15 -0500
Message-ID: <tnah02d5q5edbk1gej29jv4uhp3oqfbu00@4ax.com>

I didn't recommend Gorilla Glue in my post in this thread because it
swells as it cures and it gets fairly hard and brittle.  The 3M
polyurethane that I recommended is more suitable for this application,
I think.  Cheaper too.  GG, IMHO, is a rip-off, especially since other
urethane based glues are stronger and cheaper.

John


On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:22:25 +0000 (UTC), enigma <enigma@empire.net>
wrote:

>"Farmall" <PENMART01@aol.com> wrote in
>news:1141396811.242576.284510@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> enigma wrote:
>>> i have some old Matchbox trucks (about 30-40 years old)
>>> that my son & i want to play with, but the tires keep
>>> falling off (due to age i guess). what type of glue can i
>>> use to fix this problem?
>>>  the 'hubs' are a hard plastic & the tires are a rubbery
>>> feeling plasic (i don't think they're actually rubber
>>> anyway).
>>>  the problem is especially bad on the construction
>>>  vehicles.
>>
>> Gorilla Glue.
>
> thanks. that's what i was thinking, but i wasn't sure. i love
>that stuff :)
> i fixed a broken chair rung with that & some yarn 3 years ago
>& it's strong enough to stand on the rung (high chair, my 5
>year old uses it as a ladder). it's not particularly pretty
>with the yarn wrapped around, but it was a rather shattered
>rung & that held it while the glue dried.
> i just have to remember it expands while drying when i apply
>it...
>lee

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Grey water Black Tank Repair??
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:39:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1b8622d177siouetbsqo5ubfth1gioda9i@4ax.com>

On 23 Mar 2006 09:04:33 -0800, "joebedford" <i_mongo@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>HI Dave
>
>I was just under the rig and the test patch is _VERY_ stuck - I
>couldn't even pull off a fibre that was loose at the end.
>
>I'm going to stagger down to Lowes today and have a look at the drywall
>tape. I think the more open weave will help with the short working time
>problem.

Joe,

You might also try some of that 3M marine caulk (I verified that the
strongest version is 6200, 5200 is second best.) with the fiberglass.

I've learned the hard way that CPVC "hot water" tubing is really only
"sorta warm water" capable.  I plumbed my restaurant with the stuff
(hey, I was almost broke and it was cheap) and the 180 deg water we
use has turned it brittle as glass.  Fittings are the first to fail,
usually a crack in the body.  After replacing several fittings in
rapid succession, I found that I could impregnate 1" wide non-adhesive
fiberglass tape with the 3M stuff, wrap the cracked fitting with the
tape, allow it to cure and it would withstand both the temperature and
the 100 psi water pressure.

I've at various times used that Dexter industrial epoxy with similar
results.  With hot water flowing through the pipe with no pressure,
the Dexter cures in under an hour.  That's handy when a fitting cracks
in the middle of the day and I can't have the water off for several
hours.

The "cracked and wrapped" fittings are better than new in that no
wrapped fitting has failed again.  This is getting me by until I can
convince myself that PEX will handle the heat and I can re-plumb the
place.  If PEX can't handle the heat then I'll bite the bullet and go
copper.

Anyway, the 3M urethane is easier to use than the epoxy because it's a
bit thinner and cures slowly.  If you want to take the time to make
sure it'll adhere to the ABS (the package says it will), you might
find that more satisfactory.  Since the urethane remains somewhat
flexible it might last longer in that flexing environment.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Ragged awning
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:56:22 -0500
Message-ID: <e5uet2hqkt1ljkdc4htlf3p05fami57rct@4ax.com>

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 02:37:27 GMT, "David Moffitt"
<moffitcl@peoplepc.com> wrote:

>I'm new to RVing and bought a Jayco. 5th wheel back in the fall. the awning
>is worn to the point I can see through it in a few places. Is there anything
>I can coat it with to extend it's life since they are so expensive to
>replace?

Is there a tent rental outfit in your town?  or even better, a tent
maker?  That'd be the first place I'd check.  There's Chattanooga Tent
and Awning company in Chattanooga, TN if all else fails.  They make
tents.

Barring that, were I in your shoes, I'd experiment with some of the
solvent-based polyurethane sealers/adhesives.  GOOP is an example of a
consumer brand.  I'd thin the stuff with toluene to the point I could
brush it on with a paintbrush or roller.  After the solvent evaporates
the polyurethane resin cures to an impervious rubber.

I've used just this process to make flexible fiberglass, using thinned
polyurethane adhesive instead of epoxy or polyester resin to bond the
fiberglass cloth.  It worked wonderfully well.

Beyond all that, I'd get on the net and look for tent and awning
sealant.  Large tents generally aren't replaced just because they get
a few years on 'em.  I know that there are treatments because I've
seen them being applied.  No idea what, though.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Caulking vs Eternabond Tape
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:54:53 -0400
Message-ID: <cfchf4h7du04gioutbak5n582vdqucb8bt@4ax.com>

I am extremely put off by the exorbitant price of Eternabond but nonetheless,
I bought a small roll to try over a hole in my fiberglass end cap cause when a
"helpful" RV park operator backed me right into a cut-off tree limb stub.

It reminds me a lot of 3M VHB tape.  Not very tacky at first.  The pressure of
application breaks microcapsules of catalyst (me educated guessing now) which
causes the stuff to cure into something that God Almighty could not get off
after about an hour.

As to its rated life, I don't know.  Mine's been in place 7 or 8 years and is
still working.

On the other side, properly done caulking is also a
for-the-life-of-the-vehicle affair.  Silicone RTV is not the solution.  It's
one of those miracle goops that turned out not to be so miraculous.

What comes about as close as anything I've found to miracle goop is 3M's
polyurethane-based marine caulk.  It comes in 3 grades, only two of which
we're interested in.  4200 and 5200.  4200 is used where there's a possibility
that you'll want to remove it at some point in the future and is good only
above the water line.  A service access hatch, for example.  5200 is used
where it might as well be welded.  Forget about removing it, short of lots of
manual labor with razor blades.  It's rated for below-the-water-line service
which might be handy for fixing small punctures to, say, a holding tank.

I've caulked many areas on my 82 Itasca where the RTV (miracle goop of that
time period) debonded and came off in long strips.  I used 5200 around roof
vents and the like and 4200 around where the front and rear fiberglass caps
mate to the body.  I figure that those might have to come off someday to
repair something underneath. I've also used 4200 around my window frames.  I
removed all my running lights and put some 4200 behind each to stop seepage
that worked its way in during highway travel in the rain.

The roof treatment is going on 8 years old now and looks just like it came out
of the tube.  The 5200 has become as one with both the fiberglass, ABS and
aluminum.  As 3M euphemistically puts it, "removal must be done via mechanical
means".  That means cutting, scraping, sanding, etc.

You can buy small quantities of the 3M stuff at Wal-mart if you want to try
it.  It also comes in caulking gun tubes.  Thing is, a whole case of tubes
costs less than one roll of Eterna-bond (at least last time I compared the
two) and you don't end up with that rather ugly-looking mass of tape.

John


On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:12:53 -0600, jb <jb@nowhere.com> wrote:

>I have a small Class C (although this applies to Class A's as well).
>Anyhow what is the majority opinion on using EternaBond Tape instead
>of Chaulking to seal your roof stuff.
>
>I was reading where the EternaBond last from 18-28 years and with
>chalking, well you have to do it almost every year or two.
>
>Information I have found states that it is great for sealing the roof
>vents.  They even mention to apply the stuff right over the old
>chauling.  There is also mentioned that besure before yoy apply for
>the EternaBond is on for good once there.
>
>Now if one used EternaBond on the Vents and then you needed to replace
>one, what do you do.  I can only thing of Razor triming the edge of
>the vent out.
>
>The ideal of using something like EternaBond on the vents to seal all
>four sides and then not having to worry for even half the length they
>cited is very temping.
>
>What are you opinions?
>
>JB
>I love RVing, but hate the Maintenance

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: RV leak and the best sealants?
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:15:49 -0500
Message-ID: <jpcrm35rthji02p351ap6dn9pkkb9dpml0@4ax.com>

I have become a great fan of the 3M urethane marine adhesive/sealer/caulk.  I now use
it on nearly everything that I used to use RTV on.  Similar rubbery properties when
cured but it doesn't solarize and the adhesion is second to none.

There are two major grades (and a third one that is too weak for my needs).

4200

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7695996

and 5200

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7695995

The 4200 is many times stronger than RTV but it can be removed with some effort. 5200
is permanent and when the 3M adhesive gods say permanent, that's what they mean. I've
reduced a coated surface using razor blades down to where the surface could be
reglued but I could not remove it completely.

Several years ago I scraped the RTV out of the seams on my aluminum roof and replaced
it with 5200.  It's still as white as the day it went on.  No signs at all of
weathering and it can't be debonded, even by trying slide a knife blade under an
edge.

I'm going to be taking the fiberglass end cap off my rig in the spring to repair some
cracked fiberglass and to paint it.  It is sealed now with RTV in poor condition.
I'll use 4200 on that project because I made someday have to remove the cap again.

One last advantage is that unlike RTV, urethane can be painted.

I listed Walmart as the reference source because of the convenience of just strolling
into any store and buying some.  In the marine department.  Some Walmarts also stock
the stuff in caulking gun tubes.  It can be had cheaper from other sources.  Seems
like West Marine had good prices, as did Boating World.

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:06:11 -0800, "Tom T" <tominkirkland@gmail.com> wrote:

>Yesterday I noticed a leak when I went to check the RV. It wasn't a
>major leak but the ceiling was wet around the skylight in the bathroom.
>This is the 3rd time this has happened but rather minor compared to the
>last couple times. Luckily it wasn't raining at the time so I climbed up
>on the roof, cleaned off the area (rubber roof and old sealant) the best
>I could with alcohol and applied Alpha Sealant (1015) which is all I
>had. It was about 40 degrees Fahrenheit outside and was nothing on the
>container specifying a curing temperature so I hope it's dry now as it
>started raining today (started about 15 hours after application).  I'm
>not positive as to why is keeps developing a leak there but looking at
>it, it appears like the skylight is flexing very slightly in
>relationship to the roof causing the sealant to develop leaks due to
>fatigue. Not sure what to do about that except replace the sealant every
>year on a regular schedule and (or) using a better sealant. Does anyone
>know if there is a sealant  may be less susceptible to fatigue? Also it
>would be nice if it could be applied in wet conditions. That is, when I
>notice a leak, it most likely will be raining at the time and it would
>be nice to have a sealant that works wet.
>
>Tom

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: RV leak and the best sealants?
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:05:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1eltm3t0eeg5ltt97b0leolkjekk6g4hga@4ax.com>

Here's the 3M page for 5200.  You can download the brochure.
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTtMXfXnXfXEVuQEcuZgVs6EV
and the tech sheet
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTtlx&EO8TVEVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--

The MSDS lists traces (<0.05%) of toluene and ethylbenzine.  Toluene is the odor I
recognize.  The stuff is essentially 100% solids so there doesn't seem to be a
solvent issue.

It rates bonding to rubber as "better" which appears to be their middle ranking.  As
for EDPM, dunno, but I'd SWAG that it's fine.

It's interesting to see the differences in description and application
recommendations in different environments for the very same stuff.  RV EDPM is
allegedly so fragile that even certain cleaners will degrade it.  Yet, EDPM for brick
and mortar use is promoted for its chemical resistance.

One point of reference.  My first restaurant building had a rubber roof with the
grease hood fan sticking through.  There was grease dripping out of the fan and
running down the roof when I leased the place and a lot more was running out when I
moved out.  That was, um, 14 years ago and last time I looked a few months ago, the
roof was still there and still in fine shape.

IF IT WERE MY RIG, I'd have no hesitation using the 3M product on a rubber roof.  I'm
willing to accept the small risk of it not being compatible.  If I were working on
someone else's roof, I'd definitely write 3M before proceeding.

If you're dealing with a rubber roof seal then you might want to contact a local
roofing wholesaler and inquire about the adhesive/bonding agent used with EDPM.  I
don't remember any names because I was just a helper but the stuff we used to bond
the pieces together and seal around penetrations highly resembled urethane like the
5200 stuff cures to.  This cement was heavy bodied, viscous, adhered to everything
and didn't shrink when it cured.  It appears to chemically bond with the roof, as it
could not be separated from the roof even by attempting to run a knive under the
coating.

The only downside I could imagine would be that you might have to buy a lot of it.
The stuff we used came in 5 gallon metal buckets.  I might be available in 1 gallon
buckets but probably not anything smaller.  If you get stuck, give me a call and I'll
ring up my friend and see if he remembers a brand name.

John

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:33:09 -0800, "Tom T" <tominkirkland@gmail.com> wrote:

>Neon John wrote:
>> I have become a great fan of the 3M urethane marine
>> adhesive/sealer/caulk.  I now use it on nearly everything that I used
>> to use RTV on.  Similar rubbery properties when cured but it doesn't
>> solarize and the adhesion is second to none.