From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Adding rear seat belts
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:13:07 -0400

kda@mediaone.net wrote:
>
> Oh, I know that.  Sorry.  I was really wondering about the quality of
> the belts available to the diy-er.  I of course realize we have to take
> great care to position them properly and fasten them securely to the
> frame of the van.
>

Aftermarket belts are made from the same materials as OEMs.  In
fact, they usually ARE OEM belts.  The seat belt itself is only a
small part of the whole equation.  Safety system design really is
empirical - that is, you develop a design, you implement and then
you crash test.  If you can exactly duplicate what the factory did
on later models AND the later models are the same as your rig, then
you can have a decent degree of confidence in the system working.
Otherwise, until you crash test the vehicle, you won't really know.

For the money you'd spend on this, it would produce much better
safety results being spent on a good competitive driving course so
you'd know how to avoid wrecks instead of simply driving into one
like most drivers do.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Adding rear seat belts
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 02:21:09 -0400

GBinNC wrote:

> >For the money you'd spend on this, it would produce much better
> >safety results being spent on a good competitive driving course so
> >you'd know how to avoid wrecks instead of simply driving into one
> >like most drivers do.
>
> NJohn, avoiding wrecks when possible is certainly a novel idea. I
> think most of us would agree with that. I mean, duh. <g>
>
> But even the best drivers in the world wouldn't be able to avoid some
> accidents. I think I'd take a DIY seat belt over no seat belt any day.

Really?  Do you claim without testing to be able to judge the
adequacy of the attachment points?  To judge the adequacy of the
rear seat attachment points?  Misjudging this means that the seat's
inertial load squeezes you between or through the seatbelt and the
seat.  To judge the amount and direction of non-engineered crumple
zones?  A miscue here means getting lacerated by a belt being
stretched between masses moving in opposite directions.  While I
will and have gambled on these factors for the front seat, given the
unfriendliness of the windshield and steering wheel, the back seat
is much different.  Statistics (and my experience as a rescue squad
volunteer) show that the back seat is much safer than the front even
without seat belts.

Blindly sallying forth with some dogmatic safety nazi remedy with no
basis in fact is oh so typical and frequently oh so costly.
Actually I could not care less until the safety nazis try to force
their religions on me.

Learning to actually drive a vehicle by attending a good competitive
driving school works in ANY vehicle.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Another weapon in the war against busy-bodies
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:02:10 -0500
Message-ID: <9jce5014u2948pdabickmeo5ijn2sn57u7@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 05:14:16 GMT, Gypsy OT  (x@y.z> wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:57:43 GMT, GBinNC <GBinNC@yahoooo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:49:21 GMT, Gypsy OT  (x@y.z> wrote:
>>
>>>Seatbelts and helmets make you MORE likely to HAVE a
>>>wreck, which endangers other people.
>>
>>WHAT???
>>
>>I won't get into the helmet squabble, but I'd be really curious to
>>know how wearing a seatbelt increases the possibility of a wreck.
>
>
>Impedes the driver's movement. Makes it uncomfortable to lean forward to
>see around a blind corner, see in the passenger side outside mirror from
>several angles, turn your head to directly check blind spot, etc. The
>constant tug is distracting.

As both a motorcycle and race car driver, I have to agree with this part.
Safety equipment IS very restrictive.  HOWEVER, the tradeoff is worth it,
IMHO.  I've been injured on the track.  That was MUCH more restrictive than
the safety equipment.

>Keeps pulling you back into one position, ie leaning back. That makes it
>harder to steer in a problem situation. Hard to do anything as well,
>even operate the pedals,  when leaning back like in a dentist's chair.

Ah, no.  A well designed racing seat and harness actually makes driving EASIER
and less tiring, as one no longer has to fight the lateral forces trying to
unseat him.

John