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From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Food + Windex = ACCKK
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 03:02:01 EDT

DeeDeeJMS wrote:
> Really, when you get right down to it, that's just plain rude and ignorant.
> Where are the managers to steer these servers in the right direction? We use
> Murphy's Oil diluted (VERY diluted) on our table tops, and only at the end of
> the night, when we're closing up. Even if there is a customer in the vicinity
> (lingerers...) they've never complained. I actually like the smell.

Ummm, at the risk of setting you off on another name calling tirade,
I gotta ask, where is your FDA/health department/HAACP required
sanitizer in this scheme?  A wrong answer is "murphy's oil soap". 
Acceptable answers are:

1.	100 ppm available chlorine solution (commonly bleach or
chlorinated detergent)
2.	iodine sanitize.
3.	Proprietary sanitizer approved for the purpose.

Note to restaurant customers:  100 PPM bleach solution has no odor
unless the towel is crammed against the nose.  It will not discolor
clothing.  One of the hardest things I've had to do is to get the
servers to actually use the bleach measure when making up a batch of
sanitizing solution.  They seem to believe that unless noxious green
clouds are coming up from the tray that it isn't working.  If your
server/busser/etc wipes your table with an aforementioned
green-cloud-emitting towel, you might want to suggest to the manager
that he teach his people how not to wage gas warfare on his

Note #2 to customers:  Both the FDA and good practice require that
wiping towels be stored in sanitizing solution between uses.  If you
see a rag laying around or worse, hanging out of someone's hip
pocket, SAY SOMETHING TO THE MANAGER!  The unsanitized rag has been
conclusively identified as one of the worst disease vectors in a
restaurant.  Without the sanitizer, all the rag does is smear around
the snot boogers from the previous customer!  I've fired more than
one "old school" cook who insisted that the hip-pocket rag was an
integral part of the cook's uniform.

From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Freshwater Tank
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 19:34:13 EDT
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

Eric B wrote:

> Forget all that crap, just dump 1/2 cup of ol' fashioned clorox (don't
> use the new scented stuff, your water will taste like crap), fill the
> tank about halfway.  Then drive around the block, park and let it set at
> least 30 minutes.  Drain, rinse once, refill with fresh the next time
> you go out.  BTW, the official directions (per the Army) for water
> purification of drinking water with Clorox is 1 drop per gallon of
> water.  I don't like the taste so I just put in the half cup as above
> then drain.

Yup, and if you want to get rid of the chlorine taste REAL fast, put
a few drops of sodium thiosulfate (photographic fixer solution) in
the tank.  Then drain and fill.

Incidentally, fixer solution is handy to keep around to kill that
awful bleach smell on your hands after you get it on them.  A little
splash and viola!!! no stink.


From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Freshwater Tank
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 01:09:32 EDT
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

LOCOMOTIVE2506 wrote:
> Thanks John and you other folks for this thread. It is important and hard to
> find data on. So, 8 oz of bleach should do my 100 gal tank if I read your
> formula right.

Should be about right if you don't have anything to kill the
chlorine.  When I sanitize my tank, I walk into the restaurant and
get a test strip.  I run the chlorinated water through the system
and put the test strip in the stream.  If it turns black enough, I'm
done.  If not, I'll add a little more bleach.  Since I park the MH
beside the restaurant and since I'm required by law to keep these
strips in the place, that's no big deal.  This way, I take into
account anything that might consume the chlorine.  You might
consider getting the strips.  Look in the phone book for restaurant
supply companies.  They're very cheap - only a couple of bux for a
package of 100.

Why do I care how much chlorine I use?  Because it is very
destructive to the rubber used in my pump, fixtures and so on.  It
can act surprisingly fast. I have an on-demand, tankless water
heater in the restaurant.  I brought it with me from Atlanta after
~8 years of service there.  In less than six months, the water here
ate the regulating diaphragm out.  I now put a new diaphragm in
every 6-9 months.  Our "if some is good, more is better" local water
utility loads up on chlorine but they do not supply anywhere near
300 ppm.  My RV's pump is exposed to all the utility's chlorine PLUS
the sanitizing solution.  Why push things when I can just as easily
measure and see how much chlorine I'm dealing with?  

Then there's the issue of how much work it is to get rid of the
chlorine taste if I were to really load up on bleach.  In the 300
PPM range, there is only a slight odor and some taste.  Assuming I
get the tank almost completely empty when I drain it, draining and
refilling will dilute that chlorine at least 100:1 which means that
it is practically undetectable by smell or taste.  saves me a lot of
work in the end.

BTW, if you really don't like the smell/taste of chlorine, there is
an iodine based FDA approved sanitizer available.  It's called (I
can't even start to spell this right) quartentary iodine sanitizer
or just "red sanitizer".  It's more expensive than bleach but it is
used in much lower concentrations.  Test strips are available. Best
of all, it smells/tastes like peppermint.  We keep it around the
restaurant for people who don't like bleach.  Also available from
restaurant supply companies.  Cost is about about $8 a gallon. 
Takes about a capful to a gallon of water to turn the test strip.


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