From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.camping
Subject: Re: what to do about bears
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 04:16:00 -0400

JustRichie wrote:

> Unless you are a crack shot at a bear who happens to be charging at you AND can
> put a bullet in his tennis ball sized brain (through the inch of skull plate)

Just out of curiosity, have you ever actually shot a bear?

> a .44 mag is basically a bb to a bear.

Oh, you just proved that you haven't.  Perhaps you ought to leave
the discussion of bear shooting to those of us who have.  Hint: A
.44 mag to the head drops a bear like a sack of 'taters.  Only a
little faster than a shot to the heart/lung area.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.camping
Subject: Re: what to do about bears
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 16:48:31 -0400

Mark Roberts wrote:

> In article <0M6S6.29704$F06.4203362@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>, Darrin
> <Stillmoon1@yahoo.com> writes
> >Thanks John,   Its about time someone spoke up with some common sense.
> >Its obvious this guy has never even seen a .44 mag much less shot one to see
> >what it can and cant do.
>
> Ahem. I'm from the UK and it seems it may be a little awkward for me to
> carry a .44 magnum in the US.

I'm not sure but I don't think it would be a problem.  I have some
friends who are british nationals who come and shoot with me every
time they're over (They split their time between the US and UK).
I'm not an expert on gun law as it applies to foreign nationals but
I suspect you'd be OK.  Of course, you'd want to take at least a
basic shooting course first.

> Would one of those big aerosol powered air
> horns be a good thing to have in the tent at night?

I don't know. Does it have any sharp edges that would hurt your arse
as the bear shoved it up there?  Somehow the image of blowing a horn
at a marauding bear is a bit entertaining.....

If you absolutely won't carry a firearm in bear country, the high
power pepper spray is about the next best thing.  It works most of
the time.  Of course, there is that odd bear that thinks the stuff
makes good condiment.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.camping
Subject: Re: what to do about bears
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 16:49:43 -0400

Darrin wrote:

> Thanks John,   Its about time someone spoke up with some common sense.
> Its obvious this guy has never even seen a .44 mag much less shot one to see
> what it can and cant do.

I debated with myself for a moment before posting.  Somehow the idea
of the anti-gun nazis going into bear country unarmed is oh so
Darwin.

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.camping
Subject: Re: what to do about bears
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 17:00:41 -0400

Keyton wrote:

> Actually the prohibition against firearms only applies to National Parks, in
> National Forests they're perfectly legal to carry openly w/o a permit.  The
> latter also applies to BLM land.

Boy, that's the advice to get you in front of a federal district
judge in short order.  The only national forest I'm familiar with is
the Cherokee National Forest.  There, handguns are banned all the
time except for special handgun hunts.  Long arms are banned in
wildlife management areas, all camp grounds and most other
recreational areas.

These rules are unconstitutional but they're still on the books.
The rangers will enforce them and the judge will take your firearm
and fine you.  Someone in my immediate family has first-hand
experience on this.

I advocate following your conscience when it comes to personal
protection but when doing so, at least know what laws you might be
violating.  At least you know when to take precautions against the 2
legged enemy in uniform.

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.camping
Subject: Re: what to do about bears
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 20:35:29 -0400

Keyton wrote:

> > Boy, that's the advice to get you in front of a federal district
> > judge in short order.  The only national forest I'm familiar with is
> > the Cherokee National Forest.  There, handguns are banned all the
> > time except for special handgun hunts.  Long arms are banned in
> > wildlife management areas, all camp grounds and most other
> > recreational areas.
> >
> > These rules are unconstitutional but they're still on the books.
> > The rangers will enforce them and the judge will take your firearm
> > and fine you.  Someone in my immediate family has first-hand
> > experience on this.
> >
> > I advocate following your conscience when it comes to personal
> > protection but when doing so, at least know what laws you might be
> > violating.  At least you know when to take precautions against the 2
> > legged enemy in uniform.
> >
>
> You might want to check with a ranger or two.  I called the regional office
> of the National Forest Service here in Colorado and they said "fine, no
> problem as long as I'm not poaching game"

Why would I want to check with "a ranger or two" when I'm good
friends with most of them in the Cherokee district office?  Each
district is given broad discretion on what rules to implement.  The
North Carolina district office's rules are MUCH different than are
the Tennessee office's.  ORVs are banned on the Tennessee side while
they are welcome (with fees) on the NC side, for example.  If you
use the Colorado rules when you come to Tennessee and get caught,
you WILL be arrested, hauled before a district judge, fined and your
gun will be taken away.  If they want to, they will take your car
and everything in it, and you'll have to sue to get it back, guilty
or not guilty. Smarting off about Colorado rules is a good way to
make them want to. I know because that happened to someone in my
family.  I think the policy is corrupt and unconstitutional but
that's the way it is until someone sues to change it or gets a law
passed.

BTW, you might want to ascertain the definition of "poaching game"
as used by the Service.  It is quite different from the ordinary
meaning.  My relative was trying to recover some hog dogs from a
hunt in Georgia where dogs are legal and had crossed the Tennessee
line.  He knew he could not carry his personal protection weapon on
the Tennessee side so he stopped and buried it when he realized he
was in Tennessee.  A ranger storm trooper saw him walking on a dirt
road and the empty shoulder holster gave him the excuse to arrest
him for "poaching" and illegal firearms.  They made him take them to
where the gun was buried, whereupon they confiscated it.  He beat
the charges (the essential element of intent was obviously missing)
in court but it cost him several thousand $$$ in legal fees.  And
when he got his gun back after about 6 months of negotiation, it had
been allowed to rust.  Forest service said "tough shit".

The correct advice is, if you want to carry a firearm in the
national forest (or do much of anything else other than breathe),
you should check with the district ranger office for the district of
interest.  And even if they say it is OK, my advice is to carry it
concealed.  No use waving the red flag in front of the bull.

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.camping
Subject: Re: what to do about bears
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 16:54:57 -0400

Bob Peterson wrote:

> BTW-I noticed that a number of posters suggested some form of firearm for bear
> protection.  I was under the understanding that most of the wilderness areas
> have banned firearms.  is this not the case?  Or are the posters kidding the
> rest of us?  Or is the danger from bears and cougars more than the danger from
> rangers confiscating your firearm.

This is another example of the government making one choose between
personal safety or even his life and complying with the law.
Obviously you don't wear your sidearm on your hip in such areas and
you don't sit around the campfire playing Russian Roulette.  Safely
concealed in the backpack behind a velcro or snap closure, the
sidearm is out of sight and yet readily available.

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
Subject: Re: Black Bear Kills Camper
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:27:24 -0400

Cylise wrote:

> Possibly cougars, as some of that is wild.  armadillos may be a mild
> nuisance, possibly 'possums.  Put your food in something the tiny
> rodent types can't chew through and you should be fine.
>
> Ooops.  Wild/feral pigs.  They're about the only danger you should
> have.  Don't annoy them if you do see them.  If you see signs of them
> rooting around, camp elsewhere.  When I was in Texas, I ignored the
> possibilty I'd run into any and, luckily, I didn't.

If your feral pigs are anything like our Russian boars, I'd do more
than that.  Russian boars will stalk ya.  Been there, done that,
have the head on the wall :-)  I worry about hogs MUCH more than I
do bears.  I've always pretty much had to hunt bears.  The converse
seems to be true with hogs, likely as not.  If I see hog digs and
I'm not hog hunting, I go away.  Far away.

John