From: ole@brutus.delab.sintef.no (Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen)
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Trondheim, Norway.

#	I'd go for a good quality bolt action in .375 H&H Magnum, and I'd make
#sure I knew how to use it efficiently under stress - short-stroking is a no-no,
#and bullet placement is still crucial.

Yes, this would be an excellent choice, I think.

 But you don't really need heavy artillery like this. The bulk of the
polar bears which have been shot by Norwegian trappers have probably
been taken with the 6.5 mm Krag-Joergensen, a slightly weaker version
of the 6.5 mm Mauser.  This is not a recommendation for the 6.5 mm,
just an observation that if you know where to place your bullets, it's
good enough.  If you insist on a handgun, I know that an expedition a
couple of years ago shot and killed a polar bear with a .357 magnum
without any problem.  Don't know about the load, but you should choose
something with good penetration, perhaps a 180 or 200 grain bullet
loaded to maximum velocity.

And yes, you should be armed if polar bears are a possiblity. At
Svalbard, anyone planning a trip through the area are required to be
armed by the authorities. The reason for this is that the polar bear
is a carnivore, although I know of no example of people actually being
eaten by one. ( At least two persons have been knocked down without
being eaten, the bear just knocked them down, sniffed a bit, concluded
that they were not interesting food and went on...)

From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University

In article <52651@mimsy.umd.edu> nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe) writes:
#In article <52549@mimsy.umd.edu> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
##
#...question about protection from polar bears...

a bunch deleted

#
##   (c) What calibers and gusn are recommended?
#
#I'd want to have something like a .375 H&H or .416 Rigby.  Really.
#Preferably the .416.  The polar bear is about the most dangerous predator
#you can come up against, and they don't go down easily.
#
#Jerry Roe

I don't know how true this latter is. There have been reports of polar bears
going down very easily from inconsequential wounds. A fellow his one low in
the fore limb and the bugger rolled up into a ball, until it discovered that
it wasn't really hurt. Then it booked, which made the follow-up shot more
difficult. It seems they don't get pushed around much where they live and
are not used to the shock/pain or so the theory goes.

There is a really good book called "The Year Long Day", the name of the author
escapes me now, about his exploits living alone on one of the fiords in one of
the Scandinavian countries. He had permits from the gov't to harvest various
types of critters which included 10 polar bears per year. He did this for three
years I believe until the gov't closed the area down. He did all of his hunting
using an "8mm". No other designation, but even the biggest European 8mm is not
much more powerful than our .338. He had some fantastic tales but none arising
from any inadequacies of his rifle. If you wanted to learn a little about
hunting polar bears this book would be useful and if you just wanted an
entertaining hunting story this would be excellent.

geoff kotzar

From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Subject: Re:  Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University

In article <52591@mimsy.umd.edu> bae@auspex.com (Brian Ehrmantraut) writes:
##   (a) Is *ANY* handgun cartridge useful against polar bears?  (He's
##       thinking of a .454 Casull)

In the DBI book Hunting for Handgunners there are a numnber of articles
about bears of the very large grizzly and polar types being taken with
heavily loaded .44 Magnums and .454's. The loads can be handloaded easily
or purchased from Cor-Bon. These guns have been used on things even bigger
than bears with good success - Asian and African buffalo and lions and
elephants,... - and are available pretty much over the counter.

#
##   (b) Are semi auto rifles appropriate, or does the cold weather
##       interfere with reliability?
#
#	The problem is most SA rifles don't come in sufficiently large calibers
#to make me happy.  I have heard of a fellow converting Garands into .375 H&H,
#which would do the jobs (if reliable)

The Browning BAR is available in .338 Win Mag which should do the job quite
handily. There is even an article about a fellow who had one converted to
.416 Taylor which duplicates the .411 KDF, .416 Rigby and .416 Reminton.
As above he can handload his own or purchase ammo from A-Square.

#
##   (c) What calibers and gusn are recommended?
#
#	I'd go for a good quality bolt action in .375 H&H Magnum, and I'd make
#sure I knew how to use it efficiently under stress - short-stroking is a no-no,
#and bullet placement is still crucial.

Actually I think you could start out a little lower on the cartridge spectrum
and go with a .338 Win Mag and still be quite safe. The reason for this round
is its availability on the standard length action, they are easier to come by.
If he is willing to go all the way to the long action, the .416 Reminton is a
better choice than the .375. And then there is always the .458 but unfortu-
nately the best loads are not factory loaded at present - for bear that is.

Have your friend check out the Handloader's Digest No. 12. There is a very
excellent article by Ray Orodica and Andy Runyan about the .40's and bear
loads. Andy Runyan is a guide in Alaska and he and his crew have all switched
over to .411/.416's when guiding clients after coastal grizzlies.

#
#	I'd also make sure to study a copy of:
#
#	"Bear Attacks - Their Causes and Avoidance", Stephen Herrero, Nick
#Lyons Books, 1985, New York - ISBN 0-941130-82-7
#
#		Brian A. Ehrmantraut
#


geoff kotzar

From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University

In article <52835@mimsy.umd.edu> boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman) writes:
#In article <52722@mimsy.umd.edu>, thi@mips2.ma30.bull.com
#    (Saigon Smuggler) writes:
##
##I recalled a writer of a hunting magazine failed to stop a charging
##grizzly with six 210-gr JHP .44 Magnum rounds at armlength distance.
##The six rounds all hit in a small group in the chest/heart area of the
##bear.  However, they all expanded and failed to penetrate past the heavy
##chest muscles.
##
##He was saved by his buddy with a high-power rifle.  He went on to recommend
##heavy (over 300 grains) hard-cast bullets for .44 Mag.
#
#	A friend of mine guides bear hunters here in N.M., and he won't
#  allow anyone to shoot a bear with a .44 Mag pistol, because of several
#  similar bad experiences with even our much smaller black bears - the
#  standard 240 grain bullets, particularly the JHP's that everyone is so
#  fond of using, just do not penetrate reliably.  When you have dogs worth
#  $1000's of dollars under the tree, you don't want the bear coming out of
#  the tree and killing them.

Just for the record, the fellow cited in the original posting was Larry Kelly
of MagnaPort fame. The load he was using at the time was reported to be the
Remington 240 SJHP factory load. His buddy happened to be his guide who was
using a .375 H&H. The bear in question was a not spectacularly big grizzly
at 7 and 1/2 feet. Apparently, the critter had used the cabin they were
occupying before and just wanted to get in out of the rain. The encounter
happened during daylight hours, BTW. The bear just did not care that they
were there. Kelly dropped JHP's for hunting big things, and started using
the Federal FMJ's. You might want to check out the DBI book "Hunting for
Handgunners" by Kelly and Jones. A little short on real meat but entertaining
none the less.

geoff kotzar              gmk@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu

From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Subject: Re:  Handgun vs. a bear

In article <01H48FZ10O5C8WWJ9M@mbcl.rutgers.edu> emanuel@mbcl.rutgers.edu
writes:

#pardon me for being ignorant but I've been reading this thread on
#Handgun vs. Grizzly bear and I think that if you emptied a whole
#magazine from a 9mm- say 18 rounds- that this would definitely stop a
#bear.  Even if they were hollowpoint, fmj, whatever.  Some of you may
#say well there isn't enough time to empty the whole clip and a bear
#can run real fast (30 mph +)  I think there is plenty of time to
#concentrate and keep firing.  He will probably slow down after he/she
#the bear, is hit a few times.  Would this stop a bear?


You live in an interesting world. But the one you describe is not
the same as that described by people who have hunted bear with
handguns. Larry Kelly, owner of Magna-Port and hundgun hunter Hall
of Famer, has told a story about having to share a hunting cabin
with his guide and temporarily with a not overly-large grizzly
near an Alaskan river. The bear apparently decided to get out of
the rain and like the hunters choose to use the 10' by 12' cabin.
When it entered, Kelly shot it 6 times with a .44 Mag loaded with
Remington's 240 SJHP's as he back-pedalled onto the stove. All six
shots flattened out on the breast-bone, since the bear was on its
hind legs at the time. Not one of his shots made it into the body
cavity much less damaged the vital organs. While Kelly was doing
this his guide was busy with his .375 H&H mag. Between the two of
them they shot it something like 13 to 17 shots, this last detail
I cannot remember, before they were finally able to kill it. It
took both of them emptying their guns once, 9 or 10 shots, to just
break the attack and drive it out of the cabin.

Kelly reported that it taught him the value of penetration and that
HP's are way over touted for hunting heavy game.

gmk