Newsgroups: rec.guns
From: rsiatl!jgd@mathcs.emory.edu (John G. De Armond)
Subject: Re: Guns safes and other storage
Keywords: storage, safe, powder
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 90 19:44:59 GMT

In article <1990Jan4.190611.503@ism.isc.com> rdh@sli.com (Robert D. Houk) writes:
>Massachusetts at least requires that you keep [gun]powder locked up. And
>it is a very good idea to keep such things locked up in today's liability-
>crazy society anyways.

Another typically stupid Mass. law.

>"no problem" I was told), shelf organizations (tradeoff between vertical
>space for rifles versus horizontal ("shelf") space for pistols, powder,
>cameras, scopes, etc.), and fireproofing (Browning only had one fireproof

This brings up a very interesting question and is the basis of my comment
above.  Most of these safes (especially the Browning) are pretty hefty
and have doors that fit pretty close.  Does not storing powder or ammunition
in these things generate an explosive hazard in the event of accidental
ignition?  The fireproof one in particular look like they'd make pretty
good shrapnel.

I usually have 50 to 100 lbs of powder in various grades around here.
I could imagine the damage done if that quantity were to be ignited inside
a thick-walled safe.  Especially after touching off a 1 lb can of W-W 231
(by LONG distance remote control) one time just to see what would happen.
(A BIG fireball.)  When considering this question, remember that the
definition of "fire safes" only require that the internal temperature
not rise above the char point of paper in order to get UL ratings.  This
rise would be more than enough to touch off powder.

I'm asking this question as much for information as anything.  Does the
literature that comes with the safe address powder storage?  Do any of the
safes have blow-off panels which would make the safe safe :-) to store
smokeless powder?   And a related question, why do all gun stores seem to
store their stock of black powder in HEAVY metal boxes with latched
lids?   The shrapnel potential of this practice is mind-boggling.  I store
mine in a nice wooden box with an anti-static lining.


John

From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Subject: Re: Storage of primers
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Dec1.055142.4656@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
#In article <HOLLEN.92Nov29080526@peg.megatek.UUCP>,
#megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
#|> #>>>> On 27 Nov 92 22:20:36 GMT, dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R.
#|> Newcomb) said:
#|>
#|> Don> I would like to find out how other people living in humid
#|> climates
#|> Don> store their primers. Tupperware? Cookie jar?
#|>


#|> These bags are stored in a wooden shed which is
#|> NOT attached to the house.  This shed also contains my gunpowder
#|> stash.  When you go into gun stores, their powder safes are always
#|> wooden.


#The main reason they are wooden are to eliminate explosions
#in the event of fire. Put 300lbs of smokeless in a steel safe
#and you have a 300+ lb bomb, it would take a pretty good
#safe to hold that in.

#Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063

If you use a wooden enclosure that is too stoutly constructed you will also
wind up with a bomb. The enclosure must be designed to pop open at very
low pressure. According to one of the Material Science professors who
consulted on the design of the shaped charge anti-tank projectiles in
days long past, wood is used for two reasons in these applications. First,
it acts as a great insulator; with 1800 F temperatures on one side of
the char layer, the temperature on the other side of the char layer is
only 350 F. Second, for most reasonably dense woods the char layer will
only advance at a rate of 1mm per minute. For a magazine with one inch
thick walls you buy yourself almost half an hour before internal temper-
atures reach a danger level.

geoff kotzar          gmk@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu