From: njohnson@nosc.mil (Norman F. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: [Reloading] Newbiee needs advice
Date: 17 May 1995 18:46:09 -0400
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742
Lines: 522

Some stuff that I have written for beginners:

        ---------------------------------------

I have been asked for recommended reloading equipment so often
that I have written out a list of equipment that has served me
well for lots of years.  If one does lots of reading before he
starts to buy equipment he has a much better chance of purchasing
equipment that he will stick with.  I do not believe in "starter"
kits or guns or tools of any kind.  To me that is a waste of time
and money.  With few exceptions, this equipment does not wear out
and, carefully selected, will last the rest of one's life.  I had
a good friend who was an experienced reloader and he advised me
well.  Except for new developments and tools such as Lee's
excellent Factory Crimper, break proof, well centered decapping
pins and the like, I still use the equipment that I started with.
Remember all of this is subjective, and therefore subject to good
sense for the desired application.

For the beginner I would suggest one of the turret designs (all
on the market that I have seen are good), they make for faster
brass preparation and are strong enough to do HEAVY case reform-
ing.

Even my Lyman Spar-T, a smaller turret type, has done MUCH heavy
duty brass reforming and bullet swaging.  This is a design that,
even if you later add a progressive, will always be of use.

     -----------------------------------------------------

# In particular, would you recommend for me :
#    1a) Books to read before getting started
#    1b) Reference books
#    2a) Starting with pistol (.38 and .357 Mag)
#    2b) or starting with rifle (.223 and .308 and .357 Mag)
#    3a) Other tools (dial calipers & mikes I have, so ???)
#    3b) Dies (steel, carbide, titanium nitride)
#    4 ) Do all die sets fit all presses (dia., thread size)

Most of the current reloading books are pretty good.  Some old
wives tales are still repeated occasionally, but they are not too
prevalent in sources such as Lyman's Reloading Manual, 46th
edition, which is my favorite of all for both the generous
variety of loads and the vast amount of general and specific
shooting information that is included.  It has sections on
history, muzzle loading, casting, pressure measurement, accuracy,
ballistics, statistics, components, etc.

I do not have Sierra's (expensive) latest two volume set but it
also is loaded with all sorts of stuff that an engineer cannot
resist.

The Hodgdon Powder Data Manual has added other manufacturer's
powders to their own in the 25th edition.  It also has sections
on some of the above topics that are more brief -- but good.

If you are interested in cast bullet shooting, Lyman's Cast
Bullet Manual, the NRA Cast Bullet Manual, and Wolfe Publishing
casting and bullet making manuals are outstanding.  I would not
be without any of them.  This is my first love and as you have
seen me do on the net many times before I would strongly
recommend that you join the cast bullet Association.  The info
that is provided in the pages of the Fouling Shot is useful to
all shooters.  I have found that to be so true that I have put a
good number of dollars into purchasing all the back issues.  I
have read every issue, which is what lead me to do the complete
Index, now about 50 pages.

Reference books that are particularly useful to me are Nonte's
Home Cartridge Conversions, Donnelly's Cartridge Conversions,
Cartridges of the World by Frank Barnes, Cast Bullets by Col.
E.H. Harrison, Handloading for Handgunners by Nonte, Handloading
from the NRA, and Hatcher's Notebook.  Naturally this is a
subjective list that fits my interests.

These references are probably all available from:

Rutgers Book Center
127 Raritan Ave.
Highland Park, NJ 08904
(210) 545-4344   VISA & MC

Write or call for a free catalog listing of 7000
gun/hunting/outdoor books.

Be sure to get a copy of the pressure article by Ken Waters that
I have so often recommended.  Read it over several times.  Start
with Handloading from the NRA and the Lyman Manual, 46th edition
-- from there the flow will be according to your own tastes but
these will always be useful.

Any of the cartridges that you have mentioned are easy to load.
Start with either pistol or rifle; just be sure that you have
read enough to recognize the inherent hazards of each.  Do not
try anything tricky at first.  Modern guns will take an
unbelievable amount of punishment but they do have their limits.

Whether to use carbide or regular dies is awfully subjective.  In
the first place, carbide dies are available only for the straight
pistol rounds.  They are made with a carbide ring insert that
does the sizing and apparently are too expensive to grind for a
full length rifle case.  I have had two sets, both of which I
gave away.  All my pistol dies have had a slight chamfer ground
at the entry of the die in order to ease entry of the brass case
into the die.  This prevents crushing cases when running a large
number through at a pretty good clip.  The carbide dies are too
hard for me to grind so I do not use them.  Some reloaders would
not be without them.

No, not all dies will fit all presses -- but -- all modern
dies will fit all modern presses; all use 7/8 x 14 thd.  The only
exception to this of which I am aware is the .50 cal machine gun
reloading die.

I use the Lyman "M" type dies to expand cases rather than the
expander button that comes with most dies.  This is because I
dislike trimming cases, and pulling that expander button out of
the case does more to stretch cases than all the firing in the
world.  Most of my rifle dies have the expander button ground
down so that it does not perform its normal function.  The "M"
die both expands the case and puts a slight step (adjustable) at
the case mouth to provide an easy way to start the bullet
straight and true.  Get Lyman's catalog for a good picture of how
these "M" dies work.

I have no preference for brand so my last 3 or 4 sets were Lee
dies.  They are the least expensive and work very well.  Dick Lee
has single handedly forced the price of dies to about 1/2 of what
they were only 3-4 years ago.  The only dies that I have had to
return for faulty workmanship were from RCBS.

Below is a list of the equipment that I use.  As with many
things, this is subjective, but I find that certain manufacturers
produce items that fit my purposes better than like items from
others; i.e., I think that the Redding powder measure is without
equal. Here is my list of BASIC equipment:

Press               Spar-T or the newer turret version
                    (not a progressive)

Dies                All good (also Lyman "M" type)

Powder Measure      Redding with Rifle & Pistol micrometer inserts
                    Bonanza "Bullseye" for rapid charging of
                    pistol cases

Powder Scales       RCBS 10-10

Case Lube           Motor Honey or STP

Loading Block       RCBS, Hornady, I make my own from 1" walnut

Powder Funnels      Regular or long tube - Bonanza aluminum is
                    static free

Shell Holders       All OK

Stuck Case Remover  Hornady, RCBS, etc.

Case Trimmer        Best is Forster (plus accessories)
                    Lee is cheap, good

Reloading Manuals   Lyman (first) then Hornady, Speer & Sierra

                    NRA Loading book is good

Deburring Tool      All ok

Bore Light

Bullet pullers      Impact & Collet types

Lee Priming Tools   Inexpensive and work better than press
                    mounted types

6" Dial Caliper

1" micrometer

Case Cleaner-vibrator-Lyman, etc.


If you prefer, Lyman sells a basic kit based on the T-Mag press.
This is a new and stronger version of the Spar-T turret press
(NOT a progressive) that I have used far more than any other for
a bunch of years.  The kit includes press, trimmer, scale, powder
measure, deburring tool, etc.  The latest Midway flier has it on
special this month for $195.95.  Also, Grice Wholesale will sell
it to you for $174.95 plus shipping.  A couple of friends have
purchased the Lyman kit and are quite satisfied.

Incidentally, many of the Shotgun News type wholesalers will
sell to the general public.  I have ordered over $1200.00 worth
of supplies from Grice Wholesale alone in the last year with
complete satisfaction.  All orders were filled promptly and
completely.  Midway has also been very pleasant to deal with and
takes credit card phone orders.

# My question is: do you recommend against a progressive press?
# I've been leaning towards the Dillon RL 550B.  Two friends have
# this press.  It's somewhat more expensive, but I've compared
# it to the Lee presses at my local gun shop, and I like the Dillons
# design better.  I'll try and find a Lyman to look over.> > >

It seems that there are two types of reloaders; those that like
to throw around a lot of lead, and those who look upon their
guns, associated equipment and shooting activities as objects of
curiosity and semi-scientific experimentation.  As one of the
latter I have no use for a progressive press as I feel that I
have much more control over my ammunition when each reloading
step is individually attended to.  Keep in mind that I reload,
according to records that I have kept for many years, 4,000 to
16,000 rounds per year so I am not exactly a low volume reloader.

During those years of experimentation and study I have discovered
many little tricks that do not lend themselves to the use of a
progressive.  At the same time, I prefer the turret press far and
above over the single stage press because of its versatility.
For instance, it can provide quick access to a seating die, a
crimping die, and a bullet puller die, a combination that is
frequently useful to me.

Progressives have other disadvantages also such as unnoticed
bridging of the powder in the powder measure/dispenser that can
result in a light charge in one case and a VERY heavy one in the
next.  There is also the very real hazard of primer tube blow-up
that seems to be reported more and more.  All reloading takes a
great deal of vigilance but use of the progressive presses
requires even more.  C-H for quite a few years has devoted a page
of its catalog to an "Are you sure that a progressive press is
for you" type article which warns that unless one is prepared to
know what he is about and exercise proper precautions, one should
not tread the progressive path.  To anyone who has been "shot"
with a primer, as I have, it is a sobering thought to imagine a
tube full of lead styphanate going high order!

All of this may sound like I am against progressives and that is
certainly not the case.  If I were one of these combat shooters
that require thousands of rounds of practice ammo per month, I
would not go any other way.  Prudence, care and experience are
the answer to safety in all endeavors.

Some associated addresses:

Lyman Products Corporation              Natchez Shooters Supply
Dept. 89 Route 147                      P.O. Box 22247
Middlefield, CT 06455                   Chattanooga, TN 37422
                                        (615) 899-0499 for info
Grice Wholesale                         1-800-251-7839 For orders only
307 Healy Avenue, P.O. Box 1028
Clearfield, PA 16830                    BDX Manufacturing
($100 min.)                             350 18th Street East
                                        Kalispell, Montana 59901
Midway                                  -- a GOOD lead bullet source
5875-D  W. Van Horn Tavern Road
Columbia, Missouri 65203                N.R.G.W
1-800-243-3220 (orders only, $25 min.)  6253 Jefferson
                                        Groves, TX 77619
National Rifle Association (NRA)        Inexpensive used brass
1600 Rhode Island Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C.  20036-3268
(202) 828-6000 [D.C.]
800-368-5714 [membership]

Old Western Scrounger
12924 Way A-12                          Brownell's, Inc.
Montague, CA 96064                      Route 2, Box 1
phone : 916-459-5445                    Montezuma, Iowa 50171
$2 for catalog                          515-623-5401
                                        EXCELLENT catalog!

River Valley Ordnance Works
1790 Harvester Road
Harvester, MO 63303
314-926-3076

Precision Reloading Handbook, 8th ed.
Sinclair International Inc.  $5
718 Broadway
New Haven, Indiana 46774
(219) 493-1858

This company sells equipment, tools and supplies for precision
shooting and handloading.  The articles they have written in
their
catalog, over the years, have become this Handbook.  It is
8 1/2 x 11, 50 pages, paper, and typed, with numerous drawings
and photos.

It mostly covers such specialized, precision things as turning
the case necks, (to make the necks more uniform in thickness, and
better centered) and making the primer pockets uniform in depth
and shape.  It also covers the tools they sell to do these things.
General topics include cleaning firearms and reloading equipment.
It is more oriented towards rifle topics (rather than handgun.)
You can get the Handbook for $5, and also ask for their new
catalog.

Lead Bullet Technology
HBR 62, Box 145
Moyie Springs, ID 83845
(208)267-3588
Veral Smith's catalog is
worth its weight in gold!

     --------------------------------------------------------

# I'm thinking about going into reloading. I find
# that I'm doing great deal of target shooting with Glock 19. The factory
# ammo cost is quickly becoming too expensive. How do I get into reloading
# scene safely? Any suggestions which books to read? Could you give me some
# pointers about the possible pitfalls. What should I look for when I'm
# ready to purchase reloading equipment and supplies? I'm a total novice
# in this respect. Any hints or pointers will be greatly appreciated> .

A considerable amount of reading is, in my opinion, necessary
approach to safe and satisfying handloading.  There are several
pretty good books to read on the subject.  Modern Handloading, a
Winchester Press book by Geo. Nonte is a very readable and in-
formative book for the beginner as well as the more experienced
loader.  Nonte covers all necessary aspects of components and
procedures without getting bogged down in detail that will dis-
courage new reloaders.

The Lyman loading manual, 46th edition, is my all time favorite
manual because it has loads for most bullets and powders rather
than just a few components as has been true in the past for
those put out by a component manufacturer.  Two good manuals that
have started to provide data for components and powders other
than those they manufacture are Hodgden and Hornady.  All three
of these manuals have a considerable amount of "how to re-load"
information in sections contained in front of the data pages.

     -----------------------------------------------------

Whether to use carbide or regular dies is awfully subjective.  In
the first place, carbide dies are available only for the straight
pistol rounds.  They are made with a carbide ring insert that
does the sizing and apparently are too expensive to grind for a
full length rifle case.  I have had two sets, both of which I
gave away.  All my pistol dies have had a slight chamfer ground
at the entry of the die in order to ease entry of the brass case
into the die.  This prevents crushing cases when running a large
number through at a pretty good clip.  The carbide dies are too
hard for me to grind so I do not use them.  Some reloaders would
not be without them.

No, not all dies will fit all presses -- but -- all modern
dies will fit all modern presses; all use 7/8 x 14 thd.  The only
exception to this of which I am aware is the .50 cal machine gun
reloading die.

I use the Lyman "M" type dies to expand cases rather than the
expander button that comes with most dies.  This is because I
dislike trimming cases, and pulling that expander button out of
the case does more to stretch cases than all the firing in the
world.  Most of my rifle dies have the expander button ground
down so that it does not perform its normal function.  The "M"
die both expands the case and puts a slight step (adjustable) at
the case mouth to provide an easy way to start the bullet
straight and true.  Get Lyman's catalog for a good picture of how
these "M" dies work.

I have no preference for brand so my last 3 or 4 sets were Lee
dies.  They are the least expensive and work very well.  Dick Lee
has single handedly forced the price of dies to about 1/2 of what
they were only 4-5 years ago.  The only dies that I have had to
return for faulty workmanship were from RCBS.

     -------------------------------------------------------

# One problem I have run into concerns cleaning brass.  I don't have a tumbler
# and don't have the funds to get one in the near future.  Just how clean does
# brass need to be to reload it and what other methods can be used to clean it?

Grungy LOOKING brass will not hurt it's quality as long as it is
free of debris, especially sand and grit that will destroy
resizing dies (except the carbide dies).  Unpolished brass can
look dark and scuzzy due to light corrosion but as long as it
does not have standing corrosion it is perfectly OK.

For a long time I used the method of dish washing soap and hot
water and shook it with the brass in a large coffee can for about
a minute.  If I was in a hurry I dried it in a 200 degree oven
after rinsing.  Otherwise I spread it onto an old towel for
overnight drying.  This method requires separate cleaning of
primer pockets with an appropriate tool.  DO NOT use a hot oven
(to avoid annealing the brass).

For those of you that use a vibrator or tumbler to clean brass, I
have a tip.  Place about 6 teaspoons of mineral spirits (paint
thinner) into your tumbling media if you desire a REALLY high
shine on your brass.  It will look more highly polished than
factory new!  I do this after I resize and it also removes the
Motor Honey that I use as a resizing/reforming lube.  Motor Honey
is infinitely less expensive than RCBS or other gunny lubes and
works perfectly, as anyone who has reformed 30-06 brass into 22-
250 will most certainly appreciate.  My records show that I load
between 5000 and 16,000 (mostly experimental) rounds a year and a
6 oz. can has lasted about 12 years.

     -------------------------------------------------------


# The second problem is the insertion of flat base bullets into
# the cases.  I'm using a Forster trimmer and chamfering tool on
# the case neck, this helps keep the bullet into place on it's
# trip into the seating die but it isn't enough - the bullets
# still want to fall over.  On a pistol case this isn't a problem
# as you add a little flare to the case.> >

Get a Lyman "M" die.  It will put a small step at the mouth of
the case so that the bullet may be seated straight and true.  I
use "M" dies for ALL calibers that I load for.  They were
originally made for lead bullet loaders but many reloaders have
recognized them to be one of the greatest contributions to the
reloader of all types of ammo.

# Bear in mind that I'd like to
# keep the option of doing some radical case reforming and/or
# bullet swaging - this will require a pretty strong press.

Not true.  I have reformed hundreds of .22-250 from military .30-
06 brass, about the heaviest case forming ever required.  I have
swaged many thousands of bullets.  It was all done on a Lyman
Spar-T, the lightweight version of Lyman's current T-Mag turret
press.  The press has reformed and reloaded WELL over 100,000
rounds of ammo.  Except for worn paint, it is as good as new.

     ------------------------------------------------------

# I am having a little trouble getting the cases to chamber; the
# sizing operation looks OK, and they will chamber after sizing
# but the belling and seating operations are producing a slight
# bulge (and I mean a *slight* bulge) where the crimp is occurring.
# This is making chambering a force-fit operation.  Does anyone
# have any suggestions as to what/why the bulge is happening or
# how I can adjust it out?>

I have had the same problem with two revolvers that had tight
chambers.  The answer in both cases was to go to a taper crimp.
Also I notice that the new Lee Factory Crimp Dies (pistol) in
carbide configuration claim to pull the cartridge thru a carbide
ring that assures chambering in all chambers that meet SAMMI
specs.

Two or three of the Lee Factory Crimp Dies in rifle calibers have
worked out very well for my purposes.  The collet crimper has the
power to force a crimp on the bullet at any place one choses.  I
have used this ability to make use of the inexpensive .30 carbine
bullets that have no crimping canalure ($42.00/1000) to develop
my two sons coyote loads.  One is a .30-30 at approximately 2800
fps and the other a .308 at about 3300 fps.  The Model 700 shoots
this load more accurately than any other that I have fired thru
it and the .30-30 will do 3/4" average at 50 yards.  We use these
bullets for most of our .30 caliber shooting these days (except
big game hunting) as they are about half price of comparable
spitzer bullets.  My ballistics program indicates that we do not
give up all that much trajectory with the round nose bullets.  I
slightly flatten the noses in a swaging die for use in the .30-
30.

A word of caution when consulting reloading manuals for
powders/cartridges with which you have no prior experience.
During the development of the .308 load mentioned above I noticed
that the Lyman manual listed considerably more H-335 powder than
all of my other sources (I have many!).  While tempted to start a
couple of grains lighter than the maximum recommended by Lyman, I
am thankful to the Good Lord that prudence prevailed.  My maximum
in the Model 700 was 4.5 grains (yes, four and one half) lighter
than Lyman's listed maximum with the 110 gr. bullet.  This is the
first time in all my years of reloading that I have found
published data to be excessive.  It is usually (sometimes
ridiculously) conservative.  As usual I used Ken Water's method
to determine what I would consider maximum.  My maximum is .0005"
diameter expansion more than factory loads in the same brass.

        ------------------------------------------------

For 1911 lovers:

The .45ACP 1911 was designed by John Browning to headspace on the
case mouth but in fact it rarely works this way. The case head is
really held against the bolt by the extractor.  To prove this to
yourself, measure the length of a dozen .45ACP cases. You will
discover that the cases are ALL (even newly manufactured ones)
considerably shorter than SAMMI specs call for.  The resultant
headspace would be FAR greater than the maximum allowed, yet the
ammo shoots fine with no stretching of cases or incipient head
separation, even after many firings.  The identical conditions in
a rifle would be disasterous.

Since 1911 barrels from Colt and other suppliers are normally
chambered longer than necessary, and with the additional
complication of the short cases, some of us seat our bullets to a
length that allows the cartridge to headspace on the bullet.
This approach allows for a more consistant firing pin strike and
therefore a more consistant powder burn.  Accuracy is dependent
upon consistant ignition more than many shooters realize; a good
reason, incidentially, to keep the firing mechanism of pistols
clean.  Modern rifles, having a much stronger firing chain, are
not quite so subject to congealed lubricants and imbedded dust.

To accomplish the above headspacing approach, remove the barrel
from your 1911 and then alternately seat the bullet deeper into
the case and drop it into the chamber until the case base is just
flush with the lip that protrudes from the barrel.  Do this with
each bullet type that you use in that firearm and either record
the OAL or keep a dummy round as a reference.  If you seat the
bullet too far out the pistol will not lock up properly and
therefore will not fire when the trigger is pulled.

Hope this helps.

Send comments email as I do not cover rec.guns very thoroughly.

God Bless!

Norm