From: Jonathan Spencer <jms@salvage.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: IRA guns question
Date: 28 Feb 1999 11:45:48 -0500

In article <7b4h3j$ctq$1@xring.cs.umd.edu>, mike29@my-dejanews.com
writes
#I was watching a documentary on the IRA the other day, and it showed a meeting
#of one of the other paramilitary groups being taught how to shoot what looked
#like a home-made SMG. Can anyone verify or deny this? Are there any web
#resources/books discussing how the terrorist groups made some of their guns?

If you are talking about the piece of footage I saw recently, it was old
footage (70s or 80s era) showing a training session of the UFF which is
a Loyalist paramilitary group.  The UFF is a flag of convenience for the
UDA: the UFF did lots of nasty things during the troubles, but the UDA
could say it wasn't involved.

The SMG in question is known as the 'Avenger'.  This is a blow-back
operated SMG, firing from an open bolt, and chambered for 9mmP.  Made
from box section mild steel, it is full auto only.  It is smooth bored
and generally doesn't come with any form of sight, although I've seen
the carrying handle/rear sight of an SA-80 fitted to one, and rifled
spare barrels from Sterling SMGs used on them as well.

They were being manufactured up until relatively recently (i.e. until
about 1996-7).  I examined a seizure of more than 40 of them form the
workshop where they were being manufactured - in the garage to a
dwelling house right under the noses of the RUC.  I don't know how many
have been made over the years, but in the batch I examined were SMGs
serial numbered 306 and 307.

--Jonathan Spencer

jms@salvage.demon.co.uk (preferred)    jonathan@borer.demon.co.uk
==================================================================
Keith Borer Consultants - Forensic Scientists
Mountjoy Research Centre, Durham, DH1 3UR, England
tel:  + 44 191 386 6107   fax:  + 44 191 383 0686
Lat. 54 34.24 N           Long. 1 20.17 W
==================================================================

From: Jonathan Spencer <jms@salvage.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: IRA guns question
Date: 11 Mar 1999 04:32:45 -0500

In article <7c4ghc$jkh$1@xring.cs.umd.edu>, Rory Alexander Chisholm
<rchishol@iiic.ethz.ch> writes
#Jonathan Spencer <jms@salvage.demon.co.uk> wrote:
#....
#
## They were being manufactured up until relatively recently (i.e. until
## about 1996-7).  I examined a seizure of more than 40 of them form the
## workshop where they were being manufactured - in the garage to a
## dwelling house right under the noses of the RUC.  I don't know how many
## have been made over the years, but in the batch I examined were SMGs
## serial numbered 306 and 307.
#
#Are you serious ?

Yes.  Deadly serious, especially seeing as some of the guns I saw in
that collection had killed people.

#Why would the IRA put serial numbers on guns they
#were manufacturing illegaly ? I can't see the point...

Firstly, they were NOT guns made by the IRA, but by the Loyalists.

Why put serial numbers on them?  I don't know, I never asked why.
Maybe because the design and specifications changed over the years, and
the armourer would know that a '200' series gun was one spec whereas a
'300' series gun used a different spec.  Maybe they were numbered to
help the quartermasters keep track of their stock.

Your guess is as good as mine.

--Jonathan Spencer

jms@salvage.demon.co.uk (preferred)    jonathan@borer.demon.co.uk
==================================================================
Keith Borer Consultants - Forensic Scientists
Mountjoy Research Centre, Durham, DH1 3UR, England
tel:  + 44 191 386 6107   fax:  + 44 191 383 0686
Lat. 54 34.24 N           Long. 1 20.17 W
==================================================================