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From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)

In article <> Andrew Efron
<> writes:

#With respect to Beretta 92 slides being removed by perps:
# In article <>, (The Polymath) writes:

Much preliminary info deleted.

#Not every situation is the same.  Sure, no one *should* be so close to the
#perp but things can happen too quickly for a cop to be able to control every
#variable.  Incidentally, I don't think removing the slide is the primary
#objective of this tactic; it's much easier to just deactivate the gun by
#pusing back on the barrel.

In a previous thread there was a discussion about why John Browning tied
up the slide with his manual safety as well as the sear. This may be just
the reason. In close quarters with the safety engaged it is possible to
pull the trigger and discharge the gun by releasing the safety. Up to the
point that the safety is released the gun remains in battery. Unless
there is extreme pressure maintained against the muzzle, the gun will
fire before the barrel can be pushed back and out of battery. I played
around with this a long time ago when I first heard about this ploy, and
the above is what I discovered. To complete the story, when I tried this
out I used a dummy round composed of a bullet in a case with a live
primer but no powder in a 1911-A1. This was necessary because the hammer
had to fall and strike the primer with enough force to fire the cartridge
and I was not interested in suffering primer burns. FTR, when the primer
fired it drove the FMJ about one-third of the way down the barrel. This
surprised the hell out of me and was a pain to remove. At the time I was
much younger and dumber than I am at present. I would revise that
protocol if I was going to experiment with this problem today. If you
want to try this for yourself, be VERY careful. Unconstrained primers are
noisy and can produce significant burns on anything in contact with the
muzzle. If you cap the case with a bullet for God's sake don't mix it up
with any live ammo. Also, use a cast bullet rather than an FMJ as their
are easier to drive out of the barrel.

One more word of caution: this is not for novices. It violates all
of the safety rules for firearms and should be undertaken only under
very controlled conditions. It is a legitimate experiment but it is
hazardous as hell. If you are new to firearms, just take my word for
the outcome and stick to following the rules of safe gun handling. If
you are an experienced old-timer, make sure that you think it through.
As the Volvo ad says "Spare parts are hard to come by".

geoff kotzar

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