From: pafford@polaris.rtp.dg.com (Randy Pafford)
Subject: Re: COLT GOLD CUP .45 ????
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <C6yv5J.2IF@fc.hp.com>, bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt) writes:
|> Todd O Morken (tmorken@badlands.NoDak.edu) wrote:
|>
|> : I AM LOOKING AT PURCHASING A COLT SERIES 80 GOLD CUP .45 AND WAS WONDERING
|> : IF ANYONE HAS HAD ANY EXPERIENCES WITH THIS MODEL.  MAIN CONCERNS ARE IN
|> : THE OUT OF BOX ACCURACY AND RELIABILITY.  ALSO MOST ACCURATE AND/OR
|> : RELIABLE AMMO.  ANY WORTHWHILE AFTER MARKET ALTERATIONS AND BY WHOM?
|>
|> Some years ago, a pretty good NRA bullseye pistol competitor took his
|> Gold Cup to an excellent pistolsmith to have it accurized.  The first
|> thing the 'smith did was remove everything off the receiver (slide,
|> barrel, trigger, disconnect, mainspring housing, hammer, etc.) and toss

	The 'smith was taking him for a ride on the slide; there is no
	reason to replace the slide on a 1911 being accurized unless something
	strange happened to it, at least with respect to Colts and Springfields.
	Some of the cheaper clones might have marginal slides, I don't know. But
	typically, accurizing does not require *replacement* of the slide,
	although it may be tightened w/respect to the frame.

	By tossing the slide, he also tossed the sights, which are a bit
	fragile on a Gold Cup, but functionally quite good (sight picture,
	adjustment, etc.).

	The other parts are often replaced; there wasn't any special reason to
	replace the mainspring housing, however.

|> them in a trash can.  The pistol's owner was took back a bit. and asked
|> why this was done.  As the 'smith replied while getting new parts to
|> replace them, "That's the best place for those parts; they're worth more
|> as scrap metal than parts for a good target pistol.".......the Gold Cup
|> owner just stood there with his mouth and eyes wide open.
|>
|> Not having been in bullseye pistol competition for many years, I don't
|> know if Colt has improved this particular model over what it used to be.
|> But this is a true story; I walked in to the shop as the 'smith was
|> telling the owner about the value of the parts he just trashed.
|>

We should put this in a FAQ; is a Gold Cup worth it?  A Gold Cup is a nice gun,
and if you don't want to spend time and money finding a gunsmith to pretty
up a 1911, it's not a bad choice.  It has good sights, decent trigger,
and reasonable accuracy -- albeit probably no better than it's non-Gold Cup
siblings. I think a Gold Cup is much more shootable *out of the box* than
many or even most 1911 type-guns.

But if you want a competition quality gun, don't start with  Gold Cup, as
you have to get a trigger job, probably a match barrel [Colt barrels aren't
bad, and welding up the Colt barrel to fit better might be acceptable; most
people don't bother, preferring to pay for a premium barrel and have it
fitted], plus a few other goodies.

I am not aware of ANY factory .45 -- 1911 or otherwise
-- acceptable for NRA bullseye, from anybody.  All you will see on the
line at a bullseye match is customized Colt Govt's and Springfields.
So those parts the gunsmith replaced -- he would have had to replace them
on any 1911 [except, like I said, replacing the slide seems unnecessary to
me in just about all cases].  And these customized guns are going to run
from about $1,000 to $1,500; less than an IPSC race gun, but a whole lot
more than a NIB Gold Cup.  You get what you pay for, and there is nothing
wrong with a Gold Cup -- just be aware of what you are, and are not, getting.

Randy

From: pafford@polaris.rtp.dg.com (Randy Pafford)
Subject: Re: COLT GOLD CUP .45 ????
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <C76tuE.BAy@fc.hp.com>, bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt) writes:
|> Randy Pafford (pafford@polaris.rtp.dg.com) wrote:
|>
|> : 	The 'smith was taking him for a ride on the slide; there is no
|> : 	reason to replace the slide on a 1911 being accurized unless something
|> : 	strange happened to it, at least with respect to Colts and Springfields.
|>
|> I disagree.  The 'smith and others in the same shop had tried to use Gold Cup
|> slides, but they were too soft; would not keep the same fit to the receiver.
|> So, the reason is they were too soft; Rockwell hardness tests proved it.
|> The standard Government Model slides were harder and worked fine for a
|> competition pistol.  US government slides were also hard and good.  This
|> shop built competition rifles and pistols for one of the service teams.  They
|> worked on hundreds of rifles/pistols every year.  They had no reason to
|> take anybody for a ride on the slide.  But you can think that if you want to.
|>
|> BB
|>

That's interesting. Just how long ago was this?

Colt may have hardened the metal on the slides since then.  I have an accurized
Gold Cup, and from what I read, they are not that uncommon, and I've never
heard -- before this -- of any problem with the slide hardness.  Has anyone
else out there ever heard of this difference?  It seems strange to me that Colt
would use different metal on a Gold Cup slide -- why go out of your way to
make it more different; seems like it would cost them more for no reason.

Randy

From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Subject: Re: COLT GOLD CUP .45 ????
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

Randy Pafford (pafford@polaris.rtp.dg.com) wrote:

: That's interesting. Just how long ago was this?

This was in the late '70s or early 80s; don't remember exactly.  One
difference I noted at the time was the Gold Cup slides were a deeper blue
in color than the Government Model slides which were more black than blue.
This may partially have been due to the slide hardness.  As I remember, the
Remington slides were the hardest and preferred for hardball guns.

Those deep blued Gold Cup slides may have been made to the hardness they
had to get the finish color desired.  I doubt they used a different metal,
but sure could not have hardened them as much.

If Colt has made their Gold Cup slides harder than they used to be, that's
a good thing.

BB