From: ciurej@comm.mot.com (Ray C.)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W Model 41 or Ruger MKII
Date: 19 Apr 1996 10:00:33 -0400

In article hdt@hearye.mlb.semi.harris.com, DENNIS CURTIN <DCURTIN@hsscam.mis.semi.harris.com> () writes:
# I have to take issue with the statement " out of a ransom rest a 5 1/2 
# inch
# bbl should be as accurate as a 7 inch bbl" or words to that effect, on 
# the **NEW** S&W M-41 on the bottom of the bbl is a number, this is 
# usually a 6, or 5 or7 or, 4, I have seen a 1, this is the group size this 
# particular bbl has fired on the frame it was sold with, tested in a 
# ransom rest at the factory. some bbl just shoot tighter than others,
# otherwise we wouldn't have Kreiger, or Hart or Obermeyer.
# The original post was about the choosing between two different kind, well
# I'm partial to one brand, so my opinion is slanted, but let me say this,
# you do get the ability to purchase a second,third, forth etc. bbl with 
# the S&W 41, in either length, and if you order it right from the factory,
# and are nice to Kate when you talk to her on the phone, you might be able 
# to get her to pick you out one of those bbls, with a 1 on it!!
# 
# 
#  buy the way, those numbers are in TENTHS of an inch, i.e. 4 = .4" group.
# 
#  oh darn another secret is out.
# 

... A very interesting tid-bit of information and, I'm glad you
let us in on the secret...

Personally though, I wouldnt get too hung-up about ordering
a bbl that has low number stamped into it.  Before I give-up
on any particular barrel, I would try about 8 or 10 different types
of ammo in it.  It's a common fact that barrels do indeed have
ammo preferences.  I have a 7" S&W barrel that shoots Winchester
Wildcat, CCI Std Vel and ELEY Tenex with amazing accuracy.  Yet, a
$6.00 box of RWS shoots terribly.

If you do buy a model 41 with a big number stamped into the
barrel, do not despair.  Just experiment with different ammos
until you find the most accurate one that fires consistently.
Sometimes you will find a reliable/accurate ammo but, it
fails to cycle the action.  Again, do not despair; just install
a reduced weight recoil spring.  This is what I do when I
shoot CCI Std Vel in my model 41.

Regards

Ray C.

From: ciurej@comm.mot.com (Ray C.)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: S&W model 41
Date: 22 Apr 1996 16:29:38 -0400

In article 8ik@xring.cs.umd.edu, gwhite@tiac.net (Doug White) writes:
#

[snip]

# The Model 41 IS very picky about ammo.  A very few will happily shoot 
# almost anything, but that is the exception rather than the rule.  
# Depending on exactly what sort of problems you are having, you may have:
# 
# 1) Too strong a recoil spring.  Lighter aftermarket springs are 
# available, but may induce other problems.
# 
# 2) A tight gun.  This may improve once it's been broken in.  High 
# Standard recommends 500 rounds of high velocity ammo for the break-in 
# process.
# 
# 3) A marginal magazine.  A large proportion of semi-auto .22 feeding 
# problems are traceable to the magazine.  Try a different magazine.
# 
# 4) Bad or improper ammo.  The 41 was designed specifically for Remington 
# target (low) velocity ammo.  The hollow point stuff is presumably higher 
# velocity, with a lighter bullet.  The 41 was never intended to shoot this 
# stuff, and it may never react well to it.  On the other hand, I had one 
# that would never work reliably with any standard velocity ammo.  That's 
# why I now shoot High Standards.
 


The items Doug points-out above are true of virtually all .22
target guns.  Allow me elaborate and throw-in my 2 cents worth about
the S&W model 41.

Model 41s have been in production since 1959.  All things considered,
they are very good guns.  [in my opinion, the model 41 and the HS Victor
are the best American made .22 Bullseye guns available].  Over the years,
Smith and Wesson has made some changes in the gun.  Most of the changes
are external things like:

-Barrels with muzzle brakes 
-Barrels with internal adjustable weights
-Grip configurations
-Milling patterns on the top of the barrel
-Milling patterns on the grip frontstrap
-Swithover to Millet sights
-A different bluing process
-Cocking indicators  

With the exception of the cocking indicator, little (if any) changes
have been made to gun's internals.  S&W has managed to maintain pretty
good quality control but occassional problems have surfaced throughout
it's history.  Most recently, (a couple of years ago actually) Smith
moved the production of the model 41 to a different manufacturing
facility.  At that time, they made a few external changes
and switched over to Millet rear sights.  The opening of the Millet
rear blade was way too small.  The problem is now corrected but,
depending on how long a particular gun sits at the distributor, you
may still get one of junky ones.  Send it back to S&W and they will
fix it.

All in all, the track record of the gun is very good.  I know of
at least a dozen people who own one or more model 41s and are extremely
pleased with them.  My model 41 is about five years old and it happens
to be a natural born shooter.  It eats any kind of ammo, works with any
magazine new or old and, has a glass-break trigger at 2lb, 2oz.
I regularly change recoil springs to match the ammo in use and
the gun operates faithfully.  I regularly shoot 860+ with my
41 and I know that the gun shoots better than I do.

For around 550 to 600 bucks (suggested retail is 725), the
gun is what it is -a darn good gun.

I have a friend who recently paid $1500 for a Hammerli 208.  For
that kind of money one would expect absolute perfection.  Instead,
the gun went back because it basically would not feed ANY ammo.

Another friend recently bought a $1000 Les Bear .45. That gun
had 3 distinct flaws that required sending the gun back.

The situation with the Les Bear and Hammerli is not typical.  Also
I am not saying that a Model 41 is better than a Hammerli (By the way,
I'd give my eyeteeth for a 208.)  What I am saying is that when you
look at the BIG PICTURE of the Model 41, the gun is a good value
and investment.

Regards

Ray C.