From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bedding a Garand worth it?
Date: 24 Jan 1994 08:53:03 -0500

Considering the fact that all the service rifle teams epoxy bedded their
Garands to make them shoot more accurate with iron sights, yes, it's
worth it.  Two areas need epoxy bedding:

  * Receiver to stock.

  * Handguards to barrel; permanent glue job, you gotta sometimes
    break the wood off the barrel prior to rebarreling. 

Epoxy bedding just the receiver and handguards will reduce groups
by about 25%.  Refitting the gas cylinder and operating rod will reduce
groups about 25%.  Eliminating play in the rear sight parts will also
reduce group size.  

Epoxy bedding rifles improves their accuracy, if done right for the
particular design.  It has nothing to do with the type of sights used.
All the sights do is let you use the accuracy; some sights do a better
job than others.

If the ammo one chooses to use isn't good enough to demonstrate the
improved accuracy, then perhaps the bedding job may not be worth it.

And finally, if the shooter can't tell the difference, again, the job
may not be considered worthwhile.

BB

From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbit)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand - NM conversion update.
Date: 13 Nov 1994 18:07:48 -0500

dave demartini (dd6582@nado.hp.com) wrote:

: The gas cylinder was hogged out to .645" to float it from the barrel.  The
: small lug at the rear of the cylinder (aft of the hole for the bayonett
: rear seat) was also removed to prevent contact with it and the fore
: hand guard.

The rear of the barrel ring must not touch the front hand guard either.
Before the gas cylinder is put on the barrel, the three splines in the
barrel's front end should be peened just a little bit so the inner splines
of the gas cylinder will fit tight on the barrel; it needs to be very tight.
Then the gas cylinder lock should hand tighten to about the 4-o'clock
position and need to be tightened all the way to align with the gas
cylinder with a wrench.  If the cylinder lock has to be backed off from
tight to align, it should be replaced with another one, otherwise, the
gas cylinder won't be tight and accuracy will suffer.

: The 'ring' in the center of the barrel (if you remove the three guards) taht
: the stock fits into was removed by drifing out the roll-pin.  This was then
: perminently attatched to the fore-guard.

Both the front and rear handguards should be epoxied to the barrel.

: The aft-guard was relevied by .030" at the rear to give clearance for heat
: expansion of the receiver, and thus makes the aft-guard part of the
: barrel, and sort of 'floats' it with the barrel.

What?  How much increse in length do you think the receiver will go when
it gets hot?  If it's more than a thousandth of an inch or so, it will
compress the stock wood and become loose in the epoxy bedding.  Besides,
if the receiver did lengthen, it would push the barrel forward and that
would take both handguards with it; the same clearance would still be
there.  But the operating rod must not touch the rear handguard, so some
wood removal may be needed on the rear, right corner of it.

BB

From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbit)
Subject: Re: M1 Garand - NM conversion update.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

dave demartini (dd6582@nado.hp.com) wrote:

: I have another question, however.  Since the fore and aft guards are being
: attached to become part of the barrel, what about that lug that extends off
: the front of the stock, that slides into the bottom of the ring at mid
: barrel, that has the fore guard epoxied to it?

That `ring' is called the lower band.  The stock ferrule has a lip that
fits into the bottom of the lower band and after the receiver is bedded,
there should be about 30 pounds of downward pressure on the lower band
as the stock's forend ferrule needs to do this.  This downward pressure
is set up by the stripped barrel being held off the upper part of the
stock ferrule about 3/16ths of an inch or so when the receiver is bedded;
I don't know the exact spacing.  But this is critical to accuracy; without
this downward pressure, the M1 won't shoot very accurate.

: Would it not make sense to saw off this lug, thus totaly 'free-floating' the
: barrel and guards?  Neither article mentions doing this, but one of them does
: say to grind out .005" to .010" of the lug to allow for gas rod clearance,
: which I have done.

This is not how its done.  The operating rod has plenty of clearance
without removing metal from the inside of the stock ferrule.  Removing
metal from the inside of the ferrule's lip weakens it.  And the ferrule
should be epoxied onto the stock's front end.

: I was just thinking about this as I'm done checkering the
: stock, and ready to do the glass bedding.

By the way, checkered M1 stocks are not legal for highpower competition;
that's an external modification.

BB

From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Subject: Re: Bedding questions
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

Peter Prun (pprun@august.mtt.it.uswc.uswest.com) wrote:

: On the subject of bedding an M1 Garand:

:   - How long would a bedding job last on a non-lugged receiver,
:     assuming a proper job? (in rounds of ammo)

:   - How long would a bedding job last on a lugged receiver,
:     assuming a proper job? (in rounds of ammo)

Probably through 5 or 6 barrels; that's 30,000 rounds.  But the non-lugged
recievers are better.  Those lugs tend to crack loose.  The best M1 match
conditioner on this planet gave up the lugged recievers a couple of years
ago; they just didn't work.

The lug will probably crack loose from the reciever before the bedding
goes.  With either reciever type, you should loosen the trigger guard when
not at a match.  This relieves the bedding tension and the bedding will last
for a long time.

:   - How does one know when the bedding is failing?  Does the
:     accuracy get radically worse one day or is it a gradual
:     decline?  Is the accuracy of a rifle with cracked bedding
:     still better than the average service grade M1?

Accuracy starts to get worse before the barrel is worn out.  Like the groups
open up a quarter to half MOA.  But the bedding typically doesn't crack, it
just pushes the wood away from where the bedding touches the reciever.  This
is very common with original military stocks that were heavily impregnated
with stock sealer and oil-based finish.  That stuff softens the wood that
no really accurate M1 should have the original stock.  Get brand new wood for
the stock, then rout it out for the bedding.  Finish the stock after the
bedding is cured and trimmed.  Otherwise, the rifle won't be accurate for
more than a few hundred shots before the softened wood gives way.

BB

From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Subject: Re: Service rifle improvements
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

Here's some typical improvement numbers.  Assuming a standard service
grade M1 or M1A/14 shoots 4 MOA at 600 yards with regular ball ammo
and the best of the `match conditioned' ones shoot 3/4ths MOA at 600
yards with proper handloads, the percentages for each section mean the
amount of the difference between service and match grade group size
that section will make up.  The total of all sections will then equal
100%.

:   1) glass bedding of the barrel

Actually, the reciever is glass bedded, not the barrel.  On M1s, the
hand guards are epoxied to the barrel.

Improvement:  20%

:   2) adding a heavier weight barrel

No improvement.  Just makes the rifle easier to hold steady.  Accuracy
is the same as a standard weight barrel of equal quality.

You didn't mention adding a top quality custom barrel.  This is where
the biggest chunk of the accuracy improvement comes from.

Improvement: 40% (adding a quality custom barrel)

:   3) updating the sights to National Match

No improvement.  Just cuts the movement per click in windage in half.
Properly tightened/adjusted service rear sights are just as accurate as
National Match rear sights.

:   4) updating the trigger to National Match

There is no such thing as a `National Match' trigger.  If you mean
removing as much creep and backlash as possible, then stoning the
hammer and sear engagement for a crisp let-off, that's just doing
a `trigger job.'  Like a heavier barrel, a good trigger makes the
rifle easier to shoot accurately, but has nothing to do with how accurate
the rifle is.

:   5) updating the gas system to National Match

Improvement: 5%

:   6) adding a thicker, more rigid stock

Again, this won't improve accuracy.  But it will make the rifle heavier
and that's a help in shooting the rifle better.  More important with
service rifles is that the stock doesn't warp.  One of the synthetic ones
is better than a wood one, but not very much better.

:   7) changing the receiver to a lugged model

The guy who's built the most accurate M1 rifles this world has ever seen
has stopped putting lugs on them.  They sometimes crack loose as they're
hard to weld on so they'll stay in place.  Plus, the accuracy improvement
was a slight one and only worked as long as the lugs didn't crack in their
weld.  M1A/14s have the same problems, but to a lesser degree.  The best
thing to do with one of these recievers is to glue it in like the
benchresters do; break it free when the barrel needs to be replaced or
the gas system repaired, then re-glue it.

Improvement: 5%

:   8) using match ammunition

Government arsenal match ammunition quality varies somewhat; some lots
shoot good, other lots don't.  Commercial match ammunition is usually
more accurate than government stuff.  But neither are the equal of good
handloaded ammo.  So there's three levels of improvement ratings:

Improvement: 20% for military match ammo (LC M852 Match)
             25% for commercial match ammo (Federal, RWS)
             30% for good handloads.

BB