From: gwhite@tiac.net (Doug White)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Highpower Accessories/USMC Coat
Date: 18 Sep 1995 10:08:30 -0400
Organization: The Internet Access Company
Lines: 56

In article <43i45h$m66@xring.cs.umd.edu>, <don_bledsoe@mk.com> wrote:

< DENNIS CURTIN <DCURTIN@hsscam.mis.semi.harris.com> writes:
<#a real shooting coat from Creedmore costs between $200.00 and
<#$400.00 depending on size style codura or leather.  you get what
<#you pay for.  The USMC shooting team at Perry was not wearing
<#lite cotton jackets with padded elbows and a padded shoulder.
<#The 40 dollar jacket is good for going to the range and shooting
<#your deer rifle. Not for shooting matches, not enough support.
<
<Dennis,
<
<I don't disagree with you on the worthlessness of the so-called USMC
<shooting coat advertised in SGN.  They are pretty much junk.  But I do not
<believe it necessary for a new shooter to pay $200 to $400 plus for a
<Creedmore cordura or leather coat in order to get a decent coat.
<
<Personally I find the heavy Creedmore coats to be a detriment to my position
<shooting.  When I got started in Highpower several years back I was told to
<get a Creedmore Tapered Hardback coat.  I did.  It took me a year to finally
<realize that the heavy cordura coats are not for everone.

I've never tried a cordura coat, but any heavy high power coat is
probably going to take some getting used to.  I had my offhand scores up
to the low 190's using one of the light canvas coats.  Several very good
shooters strongly recommended that I get a leather 'Ultimate' coat from
Custom Leather (they advertise in Shooting Sports USA).  This is a
beautifully made fully custom tailored shooting coat.  The list of
measurments you need is amazing enough, and you get to pick your own
color scheme.  When my coat arrived, it was gorgeous, and fit like a
glove.  A 9 pound glove that was stiff enough to stand up on it's own
(literally).  The first time I tried it, I hated it.  After just a few
sighters, I went back to my canvas coat, convinced that I had just
flushed $300+ dollars down the drain.  After consulting with several
people, I was told to wear it around the house for a while, and shoot in
it a LOT.  I'm not sure who broke who in, but we have finally come to
terms with each other.  All the heavy padding still makes the butt ride
out further than I would like, and I have to cant the rifle to
compensate.  On the otherhand, it's so stiff that I can really lean back
into it, and it provides a great deal of support.  I am now shooting
196's offhand, and plan to do better next year.  I can't say for sure how
much the coat has helped, but I'd say it was worth at least 3 points.

I'm not sure how cordura is at 'breaking in', but if you go for leather,
be patient.

Doug White

	[MODERATOR:  Interesting ... I'm told the coat I ordered from
	 Custom Leather shipped friday, so I am definitely interested
	 to hear your suggestion about wearing it around the house a bit.]

From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Subject: Re: [HIGHPWR] Exoskeletons
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

Doug White (gwhite@ll.mit.edu) wrote:

: 1) How much will a good thick, stiff, (HOT) shooting jacket help my scores?
:    If the experts think I can pick up another 5 points by lashing myself
:    into a sweatbox, I might consider it.  If it will only add a point or
:    2 to my scores, there are clearly other things I need to work on first.

By all means, lash yourself into a sweatbox.  In the 1960s, when the 10X
company offered the first leather shooting coat, they were advertised as
hot, uncomfortable and the best thing going for your score.  Such things
still are.  The codura ones tend to be better in humid climates; they
breathe better.

: 2) Assuming I decide to spring for one of these, I would appreciate any
:    suggestions about brands/styles/materials.

Most important is fit in each position you'll use.  Sometimes one that
fits great for standing is not too good for sitting or prone; the reverse
is possible, too.  In sitting or prone, it's important that the top on the
back doesn't ride up and push your cap off or tilt it.  Some folks get a
new coat, then cut out a large area for their head and neck to clear when
sitting or prone positions are used.

Another consideration is the buckle size.  Some rifle coats have buckles
so darned big, they feel like softballs when you're laying on them.  I
like Champion's Choice coats for that reason; they have the smallest and
flattest buckles of all.

ISU-legal coats are fine for prone shooting, but in sitting or standing
with highpower rifles, they are a bit lacking.  You need to cinch 'em
up somewhat tighter than ISU regulations permit for highpower.

If possible, borrow a couple of coats from other shooters and try them.
That way, you'll be able to make a better-informed decision.

Shooting coats are much like the opposite sex; go with the one you score
the best with.

BB

From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Subject: Re: [HIGHPWR] Exoskeletons
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

Geoff Miller (ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au) wrote:

: If you get a choice of colours, as you do with a leather jacket, getting
: the back of the jacket made in a light colour helps to keep the heat
: down for prone shooting on an open range.  Get the front made dark so
: it doesn't show the dirt.

Codura jackets are also made multi-colored.

I had Champion's Choice make me an all-white cordura rifle coat in '87.
'Tis the only all-white one they've ever made.  When I'm laying on
the range in New Mexico on a hot summer afternoon, that white color does
not absorb as much heat as darker ones do.

Regarding these exoskeletons showing dirt, their fronts and sleeves are
typically made the same color.  It was the dark sleeves on an earlier
coat that prompted me to get one with white sleeves.  Those dark sleeves
were most uncomfortable when heated by solar energy.

I asked Homer Pearson (CC's owner) about laundering their codura/cotton
rifle jackets/coats to wash the dirt out.  He said not to do that.  I then
responded by asking: `Why?  It's made from the same materials that other
articles of clothing although not as much, so I don't think washing it
will cause any harm at all.  In fact, I think it would prolong its life
as the dirt would not build up and become a degrading factor.'  Homer said
CC doesn't think washing them is a good thing to do.

So, I've washed that thing about 35 times since I got it.  Every trip to
the Nationals includes a visit to CC's store and I show Homer and his
staff my often-washed shooting jacket (coat?).  They continue to be
amazed that it still looks practically new except for the black buttplate
rub-off that's imbedded in a sleeve.

BB

From: gwhite@tiac.net (Doug White)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shooting Jackets
Date: 14 Feb 1996 23:48:35 -0500

In article <4fd6dt$pmi@xring.cs.umd.edu>,
   hbennett@sw.stratus.com (Henry Bennett) wrote:
<I am new to the sport of High Power shooting and am looking to purchase a
<shooting jacket.  Could anyone offer advice as to what to look for or avoid?
<What are the merits of leather versus nylon?  Are there any brands that are
<better or worse than others?  Any help would be appreciated.
<
<Thanks,
<Henry L. Bennett

There's quite a range of stuff out there, so it's easy to get confused.  
A good jacket will help, so it's worth studying the problem a bit.  You 
also want to get one that fits right, or it won't help as much as one 
that does.  I was told by several top Massachusetts shooters to get a 
leather one made by 'Custom Leather Wear' in Niagara Falls, NY (905) 
357-2366.  They have an extensive measurement chart you fill out, and you 
can pick your own color scheme.  The results are unbelievably nice.  The 
coat is gorgeous, fits like a glove, and scares the competition.  I got 
the 'Ultimate' coat, and it weighs 9 pounds, and will stand up by itself. 
 I went from shooting around 190's to shooting 196's offhand when I got 
settled into it.  The bad news is that it cost a fortune, and is like an 
oven in hot weather.  

I'm not sure of the brand, but some of the cordura nylon ones have 
zippers in the armpits for ventilation, and zippers in the elbows for 
easy flexing.  If you want to shoot in the summer on an open range, I'd 
think about getting something with some ventilation.  Talk to other 
shooters, and see what they've got and what they recommend.  If you can 
find someone friendly who's about your size, they may let you try one out 
at least for a fit check.  Minor size adjustment can be accomodated with 
a sweatshirt or two under the coat, but you're talking more heat that 
way.  I can't speak for the nylon ones, but mine took some getting used 
to.  The first time I shot in mine, the coat and I argued quite a bit 
about how the shoulder was going to flex, and where my butt plate was 
going to sit.  I think the leather will 'settle in' a bit better than the 
nylon in this respect.

Doug White