From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: Which Criteria, Doc?
Date: 28 Aug 1998 19:12:35 GMT

In <35E640CE.E40AD4D4@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>In another thread you called me a "son of a bitch." Directly above you
>call for Duesberg to inject a virus you believe is life threatening into
>his body. Yet, if one to assert that the establishment reacts with
>violent emotion to dissidents, you'd be the first to swear to the
>heavens this isn't true.

   Would not.


>My Rx for you, Dr. Steve, is that you get away from this group for
>awhile. Either that or you start seeing an understanding vet for
>distemper shots.
>
>Cinque


     When an anonymous ignoramous with no medical knowledge gets on the
nets and starts giving fatal medical advice, there are many appropriate
types of responses.  Calling them a son of a bitch is one.

                                 Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: You're Out of Line, Dr. Harris...
Date: 29 Aug 1998 20:49:34 GMT

In <35E78801.10C13619@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>Get a grip, man. I haven't given anyone "fatal medical advice." Provide
>the cite if you disagree -- and I'm calling you on this one, Harris. I
>ignored your abuse the first time -- that was a huge mistake. You
>obviously took my attempt to diffuse the issue as weakness. Well, no more
>Mr. Nice Guy. You're going to learn you just can't throw a tamper tantrum
>every time someone says something that doesn't square with your way of
>seeing things. Provide the cite or I'll be emailing my own cite to the
>AMA Monday morning.

Ah ha, hahaahahahahah.   To the AMA?  You ignorant twit.  Can you
imagine me quaking in my shoes at the very thought?  Go right ahead.



>You've been warned about this kind of unprofessional behavior before,
>doctor-- and make no mistake, it is the worst kind of malpractice.


   It IS?   Well, why don't you tell the AMA all about it.  Let me know
what they say.


>Twice in one 24 period you've made the most
>despicable comments about my mother, a lady you've never met. Whatever
>your feelings about me, you've no right to drag her into the matter.


    Wow, a person who takes insults not only literally, but
gramatically as well.  If I told somebody you'd lost your nerve, would
you challenge me to to prove you'd mislaid a thread of neurons?


> And
>you *will* provide your cites on this as well-- you call my mother a
>"bitch"-- prove it or apologize, publicly, right here in this group --
>or I assure your post above will be officially filed with the AMA by
>both me and my attorney come Monday morning.

    Now I'm calling you an asshole.  And a dickhead.  You and your
libel lawyer can go over those words, and figure out how you're going
to prove to a jury that you're not either one.   Actually, I hope you
see a lawyer about all this.  And have to pay a retainer.

    Perhaps he'll note to you that accusing me of malpractise in public
actually is actionable, whereas my calling you a son of a bitch is not.
And why.  It'll be quite educational for you.  Prick.

                                     Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: New Subscriber with a BIG Question
Date: 31 Aug 1998 07:32:33 GMT

In <35E5CA76.C44FC75F@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>> > Relax, forget about the guy and his status, visit Christine Magiore's
>> > page http://www.heal-la.org/column.html, and have a coke.

>> >If you're living clean and healthy you probably have little to worry about.


    Advice that could very well prove fatal.  She probably (92%
probability-- the odds she will not be a long term non-progressor), and
thus has a lot to worry about.  If she does nothing and is infected
with HIV, the odds are at least 50% that within 10 years she'll wind up
in an emergency room with toxoplasmosis of the brain or Pneumocystis
carinii pneumonia, or something equally unpleasant and (perhaps) too
far advanced to be curable.  So this is not "have a coke and relax"
time.  It's time to start planning tests to see how fast the virus is
replicating, what the virus is doing to your immune system in terms of
your CD4 counts, and plotting all this on a regular basis from 6
monthly or yearly tests.  All so that well before you hit bottom, if
you're headed toward immune failure, you can stop the virus with drugs,
and go on prophylaxis against many of the worst of the opportunistic
pathogens.

                                        Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: Which Criteria, Doc?
Date: 31 Aug 1998 07:36:50 GMT

In <6s4835$gcd@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B.
Harris) writes:

>In <6s42br$c3t@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com> gmc0@ix.netcom.com (George M.
>Carter) writes:
>
>>Let's hope there is not a single new case [in Idaho]--even among the
>>fucking fascists and racists (although to be honest, I wouldn't shed
>>a tear for them.)
>>
>>		George M. Carter
>
>
>   I wouldn't wish AIDS even on a skinhead.  However, I wouldn't shed
>any tears if Duesberg managed to get infected with HIV.  Now that the
>man believes we've isolated the virus' "soul" in pure bacterially
>cloned cDNA, how come he doesn't go forward with his promise and inject
>himself with some?  In about 5 years after that, he should have an
>opportunity to atone for his many sins.
>
>                                          Steve Harris, M.D.




    Apparently this is the message Cinque is referring to, when he says
I recommended that somebody shoot themselves up with HIV (which, if
they were a patient of mine, would certainly be malpractice).  However,
I recommend a re-reading of the above as an exercise to improve
Cinque's memory and/or reading comprehension.

                                              Steve

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: You're Out of Line, Dr. Harris...
Date: 31 Aug 1998 08:03:15 GMT

In <35E9C1AA.1BEF7212@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>George M. Carter wrote:
>>
>> cinque@viaccess.net wrote:
>>
>> snip...
>>
>> >I'm hurt by this Harris idiot repeatedly calling my mother a "bitch."
>>
>> Indeed, the phrase "sonofabitch" does refer to your mother in a
>> literal sense.  But the reality is that when the phrase is used, it is
>> not intentionally meant to slur your mother but rather in the sense of
>> calling you, oh, say, an "asshole."  Would it be better if Steve
>> called you an "asshole" instead?  Steve?  Whaddaya say?
>
>This I'll allow the AMA to decide.
>
>
>Cinque



   I await the AMA's learned decision.  And do be sure to include the
entire context of the exchange, so that the folks at the AMA can take
the opportunity to call you a cowardly asshole themselves, "Cinque".

                                       Steven B. Harris, M.D.


(P.S.  Anybody who thinks the AMA, a doctor's lobbying group, would
REALLY get involved in mediating an internet flamewar between a
physician and an anonymous HIV/AIDS skeptic Troll like Cinque, has got
to get off the LSD.)

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: Physician Complaint Protocol...
Date: 1 Sep 1998 03:20:23 GMT

In <35EB0ECE.AE23942A@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>Complaint Protocol...
>
>I am in the process of assembling information re. lodging a formal
>complaint against a certain physician engaging in inappropriate behavior
>on the net. To those of you who requested I post this material the
>following is the protocol set forth by the California Medical Board.
>Their email address is ygonsoliI@smtp.medbd.dca.ca.gov
>
>I have obtained the license number of the physician in question. Please
>contact me via private email for it.
>
>Cinque


    I don't know why you'd bother, since it's public information and
I've posted it a dozen times:  G52760.  Tell the board I said hi.

                                      Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: More Steve Harris Fan Letters..
Date: 1 Sep 1998 03:22:34 GMT

In <35EB0E34.3B2E15B9@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>Our beloved Steven Bradley Harris seems to spread his magic wherever he
>goes. This tidbit was recently
>posted to sci.med by a Dr. Janice Guidotti regarding his untoward
>comments about VA nurses:
>
>> Wednesday
>> August 26, 1998
>>
>>     Does anyone out there know if the person posting as Steven B.
>>     Harris is indeed an M.D. and graduated from any medical school at
>>     all?
>>
>>     It may be illegal for him to pose as a physician and give advice if
>>     he isn't, or if he is posting under an assumed name.
>>
>>     The depth of his ignorance regarding medical matters especially in
>>     the area he claims as his supposed area of concentration lead me to
>>     ask this question to all of you who read this news group.
>>
>>     As for his comment on VA nurses, I personally have rarely met a
>>     group of nurses better than those working in the VA hospitals.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Janice Guidotti, M.D.




    Dear California Medical Board:

    I have proof that one of your licenced physicians made a
disparaging remark in public about the general quality of V.A. nurses.
He must be disciplined immediately.  Please do so.  Who knows otherwise
where this kind of thing could lead?  I mean, think about it.


                                       Lazlo Toth

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: More Steve Harris Fan Letters..
Date: 1 Sep 1998 03:39:06 GMT

In <35EB0E34.3B2E15B9@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>Our beloved Steven Bradley Harris seems to spread his magic wherever he
>goes. This tidbit was recently
>posted to sci.med by a Dr. Janice Guidotti regarding his untoward
>comments about VA nurses:



     It has occured to me (probably later than a lot of you) that since
Cinque has been releaving himself of his paranoid rants on this forum,
Fred Shaw has been absent.  It's almost as though pressure releaved
HERE has resulted in lack of outbursts THERE.  Either that, or Fred
drowned in the surf down there in San Diego at the exact moment Cinque
discovered MHA.  And Fred does know about California health professions
regulatory boards, although one supposes he doesn't inform them when he
sticks himself with contaminated needles when doing acupuncture on AIDS
patients.  So my first hypothesis is that the Cinque is Fred.  What do
you all think?  Isn't there a certain characteristic stench here which
is difficult to cover?

   The problem with this hypothesis, is that it's not even close to
perfect.  One difficulty is that Cinque seems to be dumber than Fred,
and with less access to specific information.  Possibly just a
roommate, then?  Hey, Fred, is Cinque your outlet?


                                      Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: So - What Are The Opposing Theories?
Date: 1 Sep 1998 04:28:49 GMT

In <35E913E0.D35E3567@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>I can't help wondering if things have gotten so bad the only people
>who can dissent from the status quo are those with nothing to lose.

   There are a lot of us with nothing to lose by dissent.  You just
think doctors are muzzled by threats of telling their organizations
that they're not being orthodox.  That's your medieval delusion.  And
we can see you trying to apply it to me, in the messages from these
last two days.

   Two problems with this:  First, you're wrong.  This won't get you
anywhere.  I'm not vulnerable that way.

   Second, your very ATTEMPT to do this, only shows that you're just
the same kind of person you claim are suppressing Duesberg and crew.
How does it feel to be show up as that very thing which you rail
against?   Again, we see that people who use nome de plumes here
usually do so because they'd die of terminal embarrassment if they
didn't.  Which is, I suppose, what must have happened to Fred Shaw.

                                          Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: You're Out of Line, Dr. Harris...
Date: 1 Sep 1998 04:59:59 GMT

In <35EB3FBF.72D932CA@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>cinque@viaccess.net wrote:
>
>snip...
>
>>This I'll allow the AMA to decide.
>
>Go for it! You're another one that's good for a laugh.  So much for
>any tiny fragment of respect I might have been developing for you.
>
>Gee--you gonna sign your name to the complaint?
>
>		George M. Carter
>
>
>Actually, I wasn't until your post. Now Harris has you to thank for the
>email the California Medical Board will be getting. That'll teach you to
>keep your nose out of other people's quarrels.
>
>Cinque


    The California Medical Board, not being the office of the Holy
Inquisitor, allows physicians acused of any misconduct whatsoever to
answer and confront their acusors.  This before they consider any
action.  Thus, when you tell them who you are, they will be required to
tell *me* who you are if they plan to have me answer to any specific
charge (that's the law), and then I will post that information here.
And if you're Fred Shaw, I'll laugh like hell.  After which I'll give
them an earful about WHAT you are (no, this is just fantasy, but it's
fun anyway).

    Keep typing.  Send them a nice long letter.  They have a special
file for such stuff.

                                       Steve Harris, M.D.


P.S.  Where is Fred, anyway?  When Cinque appears, Fred leaves.  It's
almost as though some compulsion is being releaved.  Very strange, even
though Cinque and Fred's styles are nothing alike, save for the venom,
of course.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: You're Out of Line, Dr. Harris...
Date: 1 Sep 1998 09:36:28 GMT

In <35EBA707.37218BCD@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

> I've since asked you to provide
>a cite for the former and to refrain from the latter with no relief.

   You haven't been reading all my messages even in this newsgroup, or
you'd have your cite long ago.


>Your behavior is despicable and may speak to your fitness to practice
>medicine.

   In your dreams, you medical misinformation-spreading anonymous
cowardly cretinous creep.

> I've since searched Deju News and found there many other
>instances of your display of the same inappropriate public behavior. I
>will present my findings to the California Medical Board. They will do
>as they will do about it.
>
>Cinque


    Which is nothing but laugh.  Perhaps send me a congratulatory
letter for recognizing the need to publically castigate anonymous
twerps who tell HIV positive people seeking information on the net that
they probably have nothing no worry about so long as they engage in
"clean living."  The highest possible levels of public censure are
called for, here.  Probably, I should have used nastier words.  They
certainly are appropriate.

   But enough of this.  I hope you spend the entire Fall writing your
letter to the California Medical Board.  Do cc: me on the reply.  I
need the diversion.

                                       Steve Harris, M.D.


P.S.  You're still a son of a bitch.  On this matter, feel free to
quote me to anybody you like.  The AMA, the CMB, the AFL/CIO.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: You're Out of Line, Dr. Harris...
Date: 1 Sep 1998 09:43:57 GMT

In <35EBA8B4.4845DD5A@viaccess.net> cinque@viaccess.net writes:

>Steven B. Harris wrote:
>>
>> In <6sfkjs$hd0@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> rgibson@ix.netcom.com (Ron
>> Gibson) writes:
>> >
>> >cinque@viaccess.net wrote:
>> >
>> >>Actually, I wasn't until your post. Now Harris has you to thank for
>> >>the email the California Medical Board will be getting. That'll teach
>> >>you to keep your nose out of other people's quarrels.
>> >
>> >Now you be sure to keep us advised with the follow up correspondence.
>>
>>    He won't.  Which is a shame, since it *would* be entertaining.
>> Starting with the "Dear Mr. or Ms. Cinque"...
>>
>> Or if he gives his name, starting with the part about where they tell
>> him about the establishment of doctor-patient relationships, and how
>> they as a State organization don't police public cussing by doctors,
>> inasmuch as they'd then have to start discipline files on all surgeons
>> in the state, and they don't have money enough to even begin that task.
>> Or that's the letter they'd write if they could. Actually, what they'll
>> be forced to write will be very bland and very "thanks for sharing your
>> views"ish, since as a State agency they're far more constrained about
>> what they say to the public than I am (ironically enough). But in the
>> back office, there'll be some grins.
>>
>>                                     Steve Harris, M.D.
>
>You're essentially correct, however, my purpose is only to have your
>posts included in your file-- and, this, the California Medical Board
>*will* do.

In your dreams.

> Moreover, my tact appears to be working. You haven't called
>my mother a bitch in days.
>
>Cinque


   Cinque, may you jump in a lake and be unable to swim, and may your
mother be unable to summon help, as she runs, barking, along the shore.


                                      Steve Harris, M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: You're Out of Line, Dr. Harris...
Date: 1 Sep 1998 19:12:02 GMT

In <nl3rnPCQevlp@mcrcr6> holzmr01@mcrcr6.med.nyu.edu (ROBERT S.
HOLZMAN) writes:

>In article <6sfv0f$mj1@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
>sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) writes:
>
>>     Keep typing.  Send them a nice long letter.  They have a special
>> file for such stuff.
>>
>>                                        Steve Harris, M.D.
>>
>>
>
>Circular, I suspect.



Yep.  One BIG file.  Emptied regularly.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
Subject: Re: Cinque's lawyer, and letter to the AMA
Date: 1 Sep 1998 20:05:43 GMT

In <6shema$rji$1@server2.wans.net> "mmmystic" <mmmystic@gateway.net>
writes:

>You apparently haven't thought the legalities through any more than you
>have AIDS. As soon as the good doctor receives notice from your lawyer
>that you are suing, I trust he will post your real name for all of us. Or
>will you be able to find a lawyer who will write a letter, "Ah, I have a
>client who has a bone to pick with you, I can't tell you his name, but
>you apparently called his mother a bitch in public, and he doesn't like
>it one little bit. Of course I can't tell you her name either, because
>then you'd find out who my client is, but you'd better stop it, or we
>will ... we will do something and you won't like it one little bit."


   It's worse than that.  You can't even libel a person whose name you
use, when calling them a bitch.  It's an undefinable cuss-word, and (of
course) never literally true, therefore understood by all to be a
metaphor.  A woman is never in danger of having her public reputation
damaged by having some people begin to believe that she is actually a
canine of the female persuation.

   Thus, you can call a private person a horse's ass in public, but you
cannot call him a thief or an adulterer (unless, of course, they really
are and it can be proven, or is so well known that the jury will not
question it).  Interesting thing, libel law.  You can call a doctor
every dirty word in the slang dictionary, but if you say he's committed
malpractice, you'd better be able to prove it in a separate venue.
Otherwise, you're at some legal risk.

                                      Steve Harris, M.D.