From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Subject: Re: Glycemic Index & longevity
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997
Newsgroups: sci.life-extension,misc.health.alternative

In <34414746.17F@netcom.ca> Tom Matthews <tmatth@netcom.ca> writes:

>Brian Manning Delaney wrote:
>
>> Tom Matthews wrote:
>
>> > His list of compounds for each of which he gives
>> > the average lifespan increase %, animal strain
>> > and diet, and reference to the study, is:
>
>> You didn't catch my meaning. By stressing, in my earlier
>> post, a particular criterion by which we gage an anti-aging
>> effect observed in experiments, I was trying to rule out
>> agents/regimens which merely tend to prevent certain
>> diseases. The criterion is: extension of life of the longest
>> lived members of the experimental group (compared with the
>> longest-lived members of the control group). As Steve Harris
>> pointed out, this is the criterion generally known as
>> increase in MAXIMUM as opposed to AVERAGE life span.
>
>I am well aware of the distinction. Unfortunately, Thomas didn't use it
>in his book, nor did he give such data for each of the many studies that
>he referenced. I know that many (I think most) of these studies *did*
>find an increase in MAXIMUM life span, but in order to verify that I
>would have to find and read each of them myself. This is something which
>I simply haven't got around to yet.
>
>> None of the agents you list here --
>
>> > Ethoxyquin, BHT, Vitamin E, MEA, NDHGA, cysteine,
>> > thiazolidinecarboxylic acid + folic acid,
>> > pantothenate (B5), pryridoxine (B6), procaine,
>> > deanol, meclofenoxate (centrophenoxine), deprenyl,
>> > l-dopa, melatonin, phenytoin (dilantin),
>> > phenformin, chromium picolinate, CoQ10.
>
>> -- with the possible exception of melatonin, has extended
>> maximum life span in a well-conducted study in which the
>> effect of Calorie restriction was ruled out.
>
>Are you sure of this? Have you read every one of Thomas' referenced
>studies yourself?


Actually, I've read most of them.  In very few will you find any
increase in MLS.  In the few that you do (ethoxyquin, for example) you
will find weight loss in the treated group.

I agree that it would be great to have a drug which produced a
"painless" loss of weight.  Unfortunately, there is nothing in any of
these studies to show how painless any of these things are.  The
animals didn't swallow them in capsules-- they got them in food and ate
less of it.  One may presume bad taste for many of them-- perhaps all.
The sulfur compounds are notorious for it.  Dilantin surely makes the
animals groggy and sick.  Some of the studies are unrepeatable (I
myself could not generally repeat the CoQ10 and chromium picolinate
results). Phenformin and NDHGA are far too dangerous for humans to use
safely.  And so on.  Speaking for myself, if I started to take a drug
and started to lose weight, I'd be terrified of toxicity.  It would
take a lot more than one small rat study to keep me on it, in that
case.  Do you feel differently?

                                       Steve Harris, M.D.