From: Steve Harris <sbharris@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,alt.health,sci.med,
	sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: New Autism Cases Level Off in California, Data Show
Date: 28 Jul 2005 12:55:32 -0700
Message-ID: <1122580532.203630.273570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

TC wrote:
> Steve Harris wrote:
> > TC wrote:
> > > Luck? Bullshit. Nature, or God, or evolution, whichever you prefer, did
> > > not create us thru luck. We developed to eat a certain way and to eat
> > > certain foods and require certain and specific nutrition. You deviate
> > > from that and you will not reach optimum health.
> >
> >
> > COMMENT:
> >
> > Deviate from WHAT?  Eating crops that didn't exist until just 15,000
> > years ago?  Or (in most cases) far less? Agriculture developed in the
> > last tick of the second hand, so far as human evolution goes. Farmed
> > produce has NOTHING to do with evolution. ZIP.
>
> I said nothing of the sort. I said eat real food, fresh food, whole
> food. I said nothing about non-existent crops. And it isn't necesary.
>
> >
> > Or are you arguing for surviving on fish, roots, wild deer, and
> > whatever berries you can get in the woods in the fall?
>
> No. Real food. Fresh food. Whole food. As opposed to manufactured and
> refined un-natural foods like white flour, white sugar, soy, potato
> chips, margarine, shortening, etc.
>
> >
> > > Genes. We are genetically geared to eat real foods, fresh foods,
> > > nutrient dense foods, which all happen to be low-carb with minimal
> > > processing.
> >
> > COMMENT
> > Such as??  Tell me what's in your paleolithic diet, and where you get
> > it. Not at the corner grocery. Please be specific.
>
> At the corner grocer. In the fresh meats and the fresh produce areas.
> Away from the boxed, refined, manufactured, sugar added, preservative
> laden, infinite-shelf-life, denatured crap.


COMMENT:

You're still not being specific. In the fresh meats you're going to
find steer meat and so on. You think our ancestors ate stockyard beef,
do you? That turkey-- do you think it looks anything like a wild
turkey, which in the 17th century was described as an "awkward bird,
providing too much meat for one person, but not enough for two?" Do you
find buffalon in your produce section?  What is your understanding of
the length of the history of human domestication of food animals?

In the produce section you're going to find a lot of genetically
engineered fruits and vegetables which didn't even exist two centuries
ago, let alone in the paleolithic. Oranges are a modern invention, as
are lemons and grapefruit. The ancient wild fruits are something like
the modern lime and pomelo. I suppose you eat only limes and pomelos?
Potatos are from South America (and are one of hundreds of varieties
which you usually never see in produce). Your ancestors came from South
America?  So-called "cruciferous vegetables" are all cultivars bred
from the same plant, and it didn't look anything like a cauliflower
(which a 18th century botanist wouldn't recognize). Tomatoes?  Your
ancestors ate tomatoes?  Growing where?  And looking like what?
Bananas?  The clone you buy in stores these days isn't even the same
clone as stores sold up till 1960, when disease wiped it out. It's not
even the same banana as 45 years ago, and none of these bananas look
much like anything you're going to find in Africa.

Tell us how mankind "evolved" on what you buy in meat and produce. Make
me laugh.

SBH

From: Steve Harris <sbharris@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Atkins
Date: 29 Jul 2005 17:01:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1122680995.031496.149530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article <1122581577.723844.156550@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>  Steve Harris <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > > Lots and lots of fresh organic foods! Meat, fruit and veggies. No high
> > > starch processed or high sugar crap that the political lobbies of the
> > > sugar and wheat cartels like to push on us.
> > >
> > > Fresh natural foods created by mother nature, unaltered.
> >
> >
> > COMMENT:
> >
> > What say you read just 10 pages on the history of agriculture, and get
> > back to us.
> >
> > There's not a thing you can buy in the grocery store that "is as it was
> > created by mother nature, unaltered."  Even the bottled springwater's
> > been filtered.
> >
> > SBH
> >
>
> Oh for pity sake!!!
>
> What I mean is shit like packaged pizza, canned raviolis, pop tarts,
> white bread, polished rice, bleached flour and white sugar products,
> overcooked frozen dinners...
>
> You know, the crap that is the bulk of the (S)tandard (A)merican
> (D)iet!!!
>
> There is a fine line, but the line is there!!!!!!


COMMENT:

Sorry, can't see it. There's no doubt that the more you do to meat and
fruit and vegetables and less they look like what muscle and plants.
But so what?  Pound, grind, mix--- that's what your teeth and stomach
does, and it doesn't look like what went in by the time it hits your
duodenum, either. Cooking?  Is that your problem? Cooking releases
vitamins from a lot of vegetables as the cell walls pop--- in some ways
they're often more nutritious cooked than raw.

As for bleaching and polishing flour and rice, it's a non-issue. It
makes them all less nutritious, but evolutionarily they're recent foods
anyway.

If you want to eat a lot of "whole" foods that your ancestors survived
on, I would suggest you learn to dig roots (not the starchy ones you
find in the stores, either), and eat various kinds of bugs. As for
fruit, our modern kind are bred to be bags of simple sugars. Sour or
small wild berries like chokecherries and huckleberries for you, my
friend. Hawthorne fruit, yum. Small bitter limes. Otherwise, don't talk
to me about it.  A modern produce aisle is about as natural as a
Pomeranian.

SBH