From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com (Steven B. Harris )
Subject: Re: Bring Back Valium (was Maximum dose of Xanax)
Date: 09 Oct 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.drugs.pollitics,rec.drugs.misc,alt.med,
	alt.psychology,alt.psychology.help,alt.support,alt.support.anxiety-panic,
	alt.support.depression,alt.support.depression.manic,alt.com,
	alt.support.depression.seasonal,misc.health,alt.politics.usa.republican,
	alt.politics.perot,misc.health.alternative,sci.life-extension,sci.med,
	sci.med.pharmacy

In <45a3gn$7l3@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> shelbyb@ix.netcom.com (Harold
Boxenbaum ) writes:

>Valium(diazepam) is available and still widely used.  However, it is
>off patent and there is little money to be made promoting it, since
>most prescriptions use the generic. So benzodiazepines still on patent
>are promoted by manufacturers.  Its not that Valium so much had a bad
>rap, its just that other benzodiapeines are being promoted as
>"better." For run-of-the-mill anxiety, to my knowledge, no benzo has
>been proven either safer or more effective than diazpepam.
>
>Harold.

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  (Sorry, Harold.  Actually I agree with what you say, but you have
such a good commercial there, I just couldn't resist)    Steve Harris,
M.D.

From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com (Steven B. Harris )
Subject: Re: Bring Back Valium (was Maximum dose of Xanax)
Date: 07 Oct 1995
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.drugs.pollitics,rec.drugs.misc,alt.med,
	alt.psychology,alt.psychology.help,alt.support,alt.support.anxiety-panic,
	alt.support.depression,alt.support.depression.manic,alt.com,
	alt.support.depression.seasonal,misc.health,alt.politics.usa.republican,
	alt.politics.perot,misc.health.alternative,sci.life-extension,sci.med,
	sci.med.pharmacy,

In <4558fm$ret@news.wco.com> Della Noche <dnoche@199.4.94.10> writes:

>from dnoche@wco.com:
>
>>Now, for some reason, Drs prefer to give newer, shorter half-life benzos
>>such as Xanax than older, safer ones such as Valium. With Xanax this may
>>be partly because it tends less to cause drowsiness. (I suspect it also
>>has something to do with less rational considerations such as the bad
>>rep Valium has gotten from illicit distribution and the fact that drug
>>companies make more money off of non-generic sales and so advertise the
>>benefits of newer drugs over older ones to doctors).
>>Just stay away from that stuff. [I believe author meant Xanax - DN]
>>That's my advice.
>
>
>I would like to know what the cause of the Valium de facto prohibition
>is. (I even had one doctor suggest Halcyon as a Valium "substitute".)
>
>Posting on this before, I was told by one fellow that Valium was easy for
>him to get but I believe he's an exception.
>
>Valium was already getting as hard to get as #3 codeines (forget 4's!) at
>the time the generics came out.  Hmmm.  At this point I believe the #3's
>are easier to get a prescription for.
>
>I seem to remember some kind of Congressional hearing where wimmyn's lib
>types were *testifying* that Valium was being prescribed to women as a
>substitute for helping them with their "real" problems.  Anyone remember
>this (late '70's)?  Seemed to me the Valium prohibition (schedule shift,
>if you like) followed only 2 years later.
>
>Be nice to bring it back. It's a better drug than these yuppie
>"substitutes" - safer, more effective.  So what's up?
>
>It's gotten so bad that for abortions Kaiser Hospital in San Francisco
>has been giving women under 100 lbs. *5* mgs. and women over 100 lbs.
>*10* mgs. for the D&C procedure!!  As a result, these women are taking
>much longer to recover and are showing blood pressure and shock reaction
>problems that used to be avoided with adequate painkilling meds.
>
>Can you imagine!  (Damn Yuppies.)
>After all, these are amounts that used to be commonly prescribed for
>daily use.
>
>While I have definitely noticed that med school grads of the last 3 years
>are very much "post-Yuppie" in their training-acquired attitudes, Valium
>(maybe because of FDA restrictions) is still fairly verbotten.
>
>What's up with this?
>
>Della Noche
>dnoche@wco.com



I dunno.  Valium is schedule IV, which means it's theoretically no more
(and perhaps less) closely controlled than codeine (schedule III).
It's still out there.  Doctors very in their prescribing habits, and
there are surely fads (including age-fads) among docs which have
nothing to do with science.  Valium started to get less popular, and
get a worse reputation, just about the time Valium generics hit.  Gosh
what a coincidence.  Fewer drug detail ladies coming around with those
latest scientific studies on Valium after that.  So, it languishes in
economization-land.

Kaiser is the best of the HMOs, but it IS an HMO, and they'll use the
cheapest drug they can find sometimes, and damned if the side effects
last days instead of hours, if it saves $20.  Most procedures which
require an anxiolytic are much better done with Versed.  Or, for that
matter, Xanax.   But Valium generic is still used by the penny
pinchers.  Atavan and Propafol are for the gilt-edged private insurance
patient.  As for the rest, let them eat diazepine.

                                           Steve Harris, M.D.

From: Steve Harris <sbharris@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: sci.med.cardiology,sci.med
Subject: Re: bradycardia and valium
Date: 30 Aug 2005 13:18:12 -0700
Message-ID: <1125433092.414637.72400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

dcholiman@ev1.net wrote:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Valium is a muscle relaxant, and your
> heart is a muscle.  With such a low blood
> pressure and low pulse, you may have a
> weak heart.  The valium and other drugs
> you may receive during the operation may
> put you to sleep for good.
> Quack, Quack
> David H
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Bjorn Borg's heart rate dropped to 35 in sleep at the height of his
tennis career. Think that was due to weakness?  You do not detect
people with "weak hearts" by their slow pulse rate. Almost all people
with "weak hearts" (unless they have TWO problems) have a high pulse
rate.

Valium in animals models works as a calcium channel blocker in heart
(surprizingly) and is a modest negative inotrope. However, big effects
from this are not seen clinically, and are of little consequence.
Perhaps they would be when opperating on a heart transplant candidate,
but not somebody who walks into your office for a routine surgical
procedure.

Anybody seriously making decisions about this kind of thing based on
random advice from the net, should probably actually have the
vasectomy. For eugenics purposes.

SBH