From: Robert Bastow <teenut@home.com>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: do you use coolant?
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:49:50 GMT

In industry, with proper systems and quality control/monitering etc., flood
coolant systems are the "vicars nickers" for optimum cutting, surface finish,
size control etc., etc.

How ever I do NOT use any form of COOLANT in my Home Shop..cutting oils, yes..as
required.

Reasons:

Mess..I have never been in a machine shop that didn't have either pools of
coolant or piles of soggy kitty litter lying about the place!

I would rather dodge hot chips than sprays of cold smelly coolant!

Smell and health risk..Unless carefully monitored and upgraded, coolants turn
nasty sooner or later.
(Yeh I know..all except XXXXX..the one YOU use ;^)

The Biggy!!!

I have never yet pulled to pieces a machine tool on which water based coolant
has been used without finding SEVERE damage and corrosion caused by the coolant
and its byproducts of degeneration, evaporation etc.  I often think that bed
ways rust away faster than they wear away!!

BTW.. this includes modern, sophisticated top dollar machining and turning
centers..where no expense is spared in sealing eras against colant ingress.  It
breaks your heart..not to speak of your pocket..to have to (as a personal
example) rebuild the indexing and turret lock-up system ao a one year old
Cincinnati turning center where the (very expensive) face locking gear was
reduced to garbage by corrosion!!

Ask any Machine Tool Rebuilder..they would be out of business if people quit
using water based coolant.

Having said all that.. I recognise that there are certain machining ops that are
difficult, if not impossible to achieve without adequate cooling as well as
lubrication..surface grinding large thin, (especially stainless steel)
components springs to mind.

So..you pays your money and takes your choice..Me..I don't use them!!

teenut

karlmilwaukee@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> I don't currently use any coolant system on my stuff, just some cutting
> fluid.  Do any of you use pump coolant systems?  I don't really know
> anything about them.  Are they worth the trouble?  How much trouble are
> they?  It seems like coolant would go all over the place and is that bad
> for the machine?
>
> karl

From: Robert Bastow <teenut@home.com>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: do you use coolant?
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:09:03 GMT

Et tu Mike?

Of all people, I would have expected better!!  ;^)

Actually Compressed air is a fine coolant and I have used it a lot.

The problem comes in the fine MIST coolants...I have WAY too much respect for my
lungs than that (and I'm a two to three pack a day Camel smoker!!)

My only problem with Compressed air around machines, is the use to blow down
clean!

Ask your local machine tool rebuilder about that Luddite-istic(???) practice!!

teenut
Mike Graham wrote:

>   What about using compressed air as a 'coolant'?  I realize that you have
> an Extreme Hatred of compressed air around machine tools, but I thought I'd
> ask anyway.  8-)
>
> --
> Mike Graham, mikegraham at sprint dot ca

From: Robert Bastow <teenut@home.com>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: do you use coolant?
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:12:47 GMT

Hey Jon,

For someone using and advocating coolant use..you sure came up with a heck of a
strong endorsement for my choice NOT to!!  8^)

teenut

Jon Elson wrote:

> karlmilwaukee@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I don't currently use any coolant system on my stuff, just some cutting
> > fluid.  Do any of you use pump coolant systems?  I don't really know
> > anything about them.  Are they worth the trouble?  How much trouble are
> > they?  It seems like coolant would go all over the place and is that bad
> > for the machine?
>
> I built a flood coolant system for my mill.  Yes, it was a big mess.
> I built some Plexiglas shields that collect the (soggy) chips, and can
> make the cleanup almost as easy as dry machining.  If you are going to
> be removing prodigious amounts of metal, it makes a BIG difference
> in accuracy, tool wear, surface finish, etc.  Also, in deep pocket milling,
> so much heat builds up that it can cause real problems in the workpiece
> or tools.  Only flood coolant can deal with that kind of heat removal.
>
> For light machining, it is WAY too much mess, so I only fire it up for the
> heavy or long jobs.
>
> The biggest problem I've had is (smelly) gunk growing in the coolant,
> because I don't use it often enough to aerate it.  I need to get an aquarium
> pump and hook it to a timer to aerate the coolant once in a while.
> There is a product called Kill-Cide 700 that keeps the coolant fresh for
> months, but then I forget to replenish it, and, stinko again!
>
> Another problem is coolant getting under the vise and rusting the vise
> bottom
> and mill table.  I grease the vise and table lightly before mounting it, and
>
> that pretty much eliminates that problem.  But, I have to get all the water
> out of the vise ways.  I squirt LPS-1 on the ways, and run the vise jaw back
>
> and forth a few times, cleaning and spritzing each time to remove any
> trace of water beads.  This has kept the vise bed from showing any signs
> of rusting, so it DOES work.
>
> For very light work including some deep hole drilling, you can put coolant
> into a squeeze-squirt bottle, or a pump spray bottle from the grocery
> store, and just give a spritz where needed.  It works quite well, and
> doesn't soak the whole area.  Just a quick sweep with a paper towel
> gets everything cleaned up.
>
> Jon

From: Robert Bastow <teenut@home.com>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: do you use coolant?
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:33:22 GMT

Joe Landau wrote:
>
> What do you (i.e., should I) use on a surface grinder?


Flood coolant!!

In 99% of cases, flood cooling will give better results. Same applies to
cylindrical and centerless grinding.

(And I know I am going to get BURIED by people quoting cases where it isn't)

If you are way grinding dry you might as well not bother!!

That doesn't mean to say that it isn't preferred, for certain very picky jobs
where light cuts reign and visibility is a major factor.  Just try flood coolant
on an optical projection, profile grinder and you will catch my drift!

Most HSM jobs can be done dry..a lot of small hand grinders are not kitted out
for flood cooling.

Grinders are one class of machine where the use of coolant actually reduces
damage to the machine.  The slides etc., are protected against grit being WASHED
down..but tend to be vulnerable to airborn grit!  They also tend to have MUCH
better, continuous filter systems.

Hey!  Nothing is SIMPLE in this business!!  ;^)

teenut

From: Robert Bastow <teenut@Nospamhotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: mist or flood coolant
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:57:41 GMT

Edward Haas wrote:

>         --FWIW there are additives that can be stirred into these
> concentrates that reduce the amount of mist that hangs in the air to a
> significant degree. Wynns sells some and I'll bet the other manufacturers
> have similar stuff as well. Give the manufacturer (not the dealer) a call;
> explain the problem and see what they have to offer...



After 40 plus years of smoking three packs of Camel's a day I thought my lungs
were immune to anything.

Then I bought what became Express Tool & Die, and "inherited" spray coolant
systems on every machine.

Within a few days I was in severe congestive lung distress.  I noticed every one
of my machinists wore masks while machining and IMMEDIATELY had my shop guy
collect all the mist systems and put them in the next scrap run.

I "decreed" that flood coolant would be used in MY SHOP, paid whatever it cost
to set up decent systems, searched for a coolant base that met our requirements
(it costs four times as much as the regular Valcool stuff)  I have the Rep come
in every week to test and adjust the mix (free unless I need extra base which is
rare..this stuff holds up beautifully)

The solution is a translucent blue, not an opaque white or pink, the rust
protection on the machines and components is superb.

Coolant is as important to accuracy as the type and grade of tooling and
machines used.

It sure as hell isn't worth the REMOTEST risk to your health!!!

FWIW

teenut

From: Robert Bastow <teenut@Nospamhotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: mist or flood coolant
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 06:30:01 GMT

George Glines wrote:

> teenut,
>
> What Valcool product are you using, I know they sell several flavors?
>
> Thanks,
>
> George
>

I am not using a Valenite Product..Don't like the opacity or durability for
starters.

I am using a Local product..I will check the name, supplier etc and get back
with the information.

As many lister's will recall I have NEVER been a fan of water based, soluble
coolants.  I have rebuilt too many good machine tools, rotted out from the
inside to ever want to use anything but non-aqueous, oil based coolants on any
machine of my own.

This stuff changed my mind!!

It isn't cheap, but then, neither are 4 Axis Machining Center's!!

teenut

From: Robert Bastow <teenut@Nospamhotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: mist or flood coolant
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:22:59 GMT

Galaxy@Berkshire.net wrote:
>
> Another question for ya. Do you run the coolant through a filter before
> it's flooded into the cut? If so what filter? I have flood coolant in
> my VMC and currently I have no filter for small particles. I'm
> wondering if adding one will help tool life and or surface finish.
>

ABSOTIVELY-POSOLUTELY!!!

Bear in  mind that these coolants are being used on Y2000 vintage 4 axis
machining centers and cnc lathes. SPENDY STUFF!

All are fitted with filter, fine filter and expensive tramp oil systems.  I
don't keep micron sizes in mind though ;^)  But each time that coolant comes
around it is as good as brand new as we can make it.  We even put fine paper A/C
filters over the final drop into the tanks.  these are changed weekly and take
care of airborne dust and grit contamination...a surprising amount in a
production tool room.

The coolant system is as important and well cared a component of quality and
performance as the high grade machinists, the mechanical, the tooling and the
programming systems.

Skimp, you miss it!

Miss it, you die! (BOB'S Law)

teenut

PS  At my shop, I pay a guy whose PRIMARY job is to keep the BATHROOM to
hospital standards!!  Pop in one day and talk to Eric and ask him!  The rest of
the shop is quite clean too..He doesn't want to meet BOB!

From: Robert Bastow <teenut@Nospamhotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Flood Coolant
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 14:36:14 GMT

The Product I am using is:-


SYNTILO  9822  By Castrol Industrial.

I get it supplied and serviced here in Atlanta by Neuco Distribution.

Can't find it in MSC Catalogue but your local Castrol Distributo should be able
to help

Having the local Rep. drop by weekly to check the quality snd keep it up to
snuff is BIG plus for me.

teenut