Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Factory-made "Schreckling" turbine
From: frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: 23 May 95 21:42:23 PDT

Since I am building a copy of the Schreckling gas turbine, I get a
lot of e-mail from people who want more information.   Some of
them may not feel that they are ready for such a complex project.
This report is for them and others who would prefer a ready-made
product.

Those who have purchased the English translation of Kurt Schreckling's
book, "Gas Turbine Engines for Model Aircraft" are aware that an
improved version, the FD3/67, is available from a company in Austria.
A company in the Los Angeles area has purchased the American rights
and the two companies are now producing the engine as a joint effort.
Today I visited the company and viewed one of the prototypes.

Schneider-Sanchez GmbH (St. Lambrecht, Austria) took the Schreckling
design and developed it much further.   The plywood compressor was
replaced with a casting, as was the diffuser and front housing.
The turbine disk was completely redesigned, allowing the RPM to be
increased to 80,000, providing considerably more thrust.   An
electronic engine control/monitoring module was developed that
makes it much easier and safer to operate.

Golden West Models has taken that design and made it easier to
manufacture, as well as enhancing the electronic monitoring unit.
As a result, some parts are now being produced in Austria, while
the rest are made in the USA.   The first production run of 50
engines (plus 20% spares) is under way and the completed engines
are expected to be available for sale by September 1st.   The
price will be $2750.00.

Since I dropped in unannounced, I did not know what to expect.
What I found was more than just a garage or basement operation.
The company is located next to Van Nuys Airport in a light
industrial park.   It is obvious that Golden West Models is a
start-up offshoot of an existing company that makes large
aircraft models, both for movies and individuals.   One hanging
from the roof had an estimated 18' wingspan.   Some are obviously
intended for use with this turbine.

They gave me a warm, if somewhat hesitant, welcome and took
me into their workshop to view the turbine.   It was mounted
on a test board with instrumentation for all vital parameters.
One feature of the electronics allows test data to be collected
and down-loaded (via RS-232) to a PC for analysis.   At least
five of the engineers took turns proudly showing me features
of the engine and describing how they improved it.

I was allowed to handle some of the parts and was impressed
with the quality.   It makes Kurt Schreckling's work look
positively crude.   Instead of hand welding, they used furnace
brazing throughout.   I consider it a high standard to gauge
my own engine by.   

Although none of the mechanical parts would be interchangable
with mine, I was interested in buying the electronics unit
(when it is complete) for use with my own engine.   Unfortunately,
they will not sell it without a complete engine.   This is sad,
as I am sure that many home-builders would love to buy this
part ready-made.   For the electronics-minded, it is built
around the PIC microprocessor.

Currently, the manual is the one from Schneider-Sanchez and
they say it needs to be translated from pseudo-English to
real English.   I was not allowed to view the manual except
as one of the engineers rapidly flipped through it, so I
cannot comment on it.

Besides the usual lathe and manual mill, they also had a brand
new Fadal VMC-15 CNC mill.   This turbine appears to be their
first engine project.   I neglected to ask if they use
Mastercam, BobCAD or some other CAD/CAM software for their
design work.

They have promised to call me the next time they plan to run
the engine.   When I have seen it run I will have a more
complete report.   For more information, contact:

        Golden West Models, LLC
        16520 Arminta Street
        Van Nuys, CA 91406

        818-781-7364 (Voice)
        818-781-4112 (FAX)

--  Alan E. Frisbie               Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Schreckling Turbine - High heat steel
From: frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: 30 May 95 14:35:54 PDT

>>Could somebody who is building this engine please give me the specs on the 
>>steel you are using/going to use for the turbine wheel and combustion chamber.

I am using 304 stainless steel for my turbine wheel.   I don't
know if this is the "best" choice, but it was the one that
most people suggested back when I asked this question.

--  Alan E. Frisbie               Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Jet Engine Plans
From: frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: 18 Jun 95 10:16:42 PDT

In article <3rv971$19sj@seminole.gate.net>, 
mwmarks@news.gate.net (Mark W. Marks) writes:

> I saw an ad in Popular Mechanics (July 95 page 114) for jet engine plans 

> The company  running the ad is Savoy Scientific, PO Box 1398, 
> Santa Monica, CA 90406.   Any comments on this company / engine plans,
> or sources for other turbine  jet engine plans apprecitated.

This company has been advertising these plans for *many* years.
A few days ago, a less-than-delighted purchaser gave me his
set for review and comment.

The package you get consists of:

1) Five single-sided 8.5" x 11" pages consisting of:

   a) Cover page with two photos of a completed engine.
   b) Two pages of puffery about how great the engine is,
      how easy it is to build, etc.   Nothing useful here.
   c) Another photo of a completed engine and one of the
      disassembled parts (about 15).
   d) A press release reprint (undated) from the Santa Monica
      Evening Outlook newspaper which basically says nothing,
      and a reprint of the Popular Mechanics(?) ad.

2) Four undated drawings by "J. S. Savoy":

   a) One "D" (22" x 34") size cross-section and front view,
      including a bill of materials.

   b) One "C" (17" x 22") size of the compressor impellor
      (cross-section and head-on views).   It is specified
      to be a casting from 356-T6 aluminum.

   c) One "C" size of the turbine disk/blades to be machined
      from solid.   The material is specified as "Universal
      Cyclops" A286 or 1753 (whatever that is), heat treated
      "per manufacturers specifications".

   d) One "C" size of the turbine nozzle.

There are no drawings or dimensions of any of the remaining
parts, nor any construction instructions at all.

To say that a lot is left to the imagination is like saying
a welding torch is warm.   My friend also stated that his
repeated letters to the company have all gone unanswered.
I noted that "turbine" was mispelled several times on the
drawings, leading me to doubt the accuracy of other items.

I searched the Santa Monica and greater Los Angeles area
telephone directories and could find no listing for either
the company or John Savoy, who was referenced in the newspaper
press release.   It looks like they are trying to hide behind
their post office box.

I am willing to bet that nobody has ever build one of these
engines from these plans.   In my opinion, this is only one
small step above a scam, delivering just enough to keep the
postal inspectors from shutting them down.   Don't waste your
money.

If you want plans for a jet turbine that you really *can*
build, buy "Gas Turbine Engines for Model Aircraft" by Kurt
Schreckling.   It is available from:

      Traplet Publications Limited
      Severn Drive
      Upton-on-Severn
      Worchestershire WR8 0JL
      England

      44-0684-594505 (voice)
      44-0684-594586 (FAX)

(From USA: 011-44-0684-5945xx)
(011 is the USA international dialing prefix, 44 is the
country code for England).

The price is 14.95 pounds, plus 5.00 pounds air mail postage.
You may also wish to order a copy of the Feb/Mar issue of
Radio Control Jet International magazine, their gas turbine
special issue (2.95 + 1.75 postage).

I have found that the best way to order is to FAX it to them,
including your Visa card number and expiration date.   Visa
will do the currency conversion for you at a very good rate,
so you don't have to worry about that.   My order was shipped
the same day they received it.   I am a happy customer.

--  Alan E. Frisbie               Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)

From: frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Jet Engine Plans
Date: 19 Jun 95 09:06:44 PDT

In article <T4avlSMRySpM078yn@ibm.net>, 
clear@ibm.net (Charlie Lear) writes:

> In article <1995Jun18.101642.522@flying-disk.com>,
> frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie) wrote:
>> build, buy "Gas Turbine Engines for Model Aircraft" by Kurt
>> ...    I am a happy customer.
> 
> Putting two and two together and making 22, is this a hint as to future
> product development?  Do I have to train my dog to get excited at the
> smell of kerosene? ;-)
> 
> "Here boy!  Catch!"  FWOOOOOOOOOMPH!

Shhhhh, don't tell anyone about this secret new product.
It will use the jet turbine to launch plastic flying disks
in the same manner as for skeet shooting.

To make it possible to enjoy this enhanced sport with "man's
best friend", we also have plans for a model that will launch
your dog as well.   A mid-air catch is considered especially
good form.

(OK, I'm being a bit silly this morning.   Please don't
sic the SPCA on me.)

--  Alan E. Frisbie               Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)

From: frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Jet Engine Plans
Date: 19 Jun 95 16:38:29 PDT

In article <1995Jun18.101642.522@flying-disk.com>, 
frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie) writes:

> If you want plans for a jet turbine that you really *can*
> build, buy "Gas Turbine Engines for Model Aircraft" by Kurt
> Schreckling.   It is available from:
> 
>       Traplet Publications Limited
>       Severn Drive
>       Upton-on-Severn
>       Worchestershire WR8 0JL
>       England
> 
>       44-0684-594505 (voice)
>       44-0684-594586 (FAX)

I screwed up both the adddress and the telephone numbers.
The correct spelling is Worcestershire (no "h").   Also,
the area codes were recently changed and I got it wrong.
The correct telephone numbers (note the "1" instead of "0") are:

      44-1684-594505 (voice)
      44-1684-594586 (FAX)

(From USA: 011-44-1684-5945xx)
(011 is the USA international dialing prefix, 44 is the
country code for England).

To speed your call, enter a "#" after the last digit.   This
tells the telephone switch that you are done entering digits,
rather than waiting for a timeout.

--  Alan E. Frisbie               Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.models.rc.air
Subject: Re: U.S. Source for Turbine Book
From: frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: 13 Oct 95 08:51:26 PDT

In article <95285.213003U54136@uicvm.uic.edu>, 
<U54136@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

> I'm looking for a U.S. source for the book "Gas Turbine Engines for Model A/C",
> by Kurt Schreckling. I've tried Waldon's and B. Dalton's.

It is available for $35 (including postage & handling) from:

    Sulpher Springs Steam Models, Ltd.
    P.O. Box 6165
    Chesterfield, MO 63006-6165

You may also wish to order his catalog for an additional $2.00.
The owner, Bob Paule, is a really nice guy and brings
a nice assortment of books and magazines to NAMES each
year.

> I really don't want to go through the trouble of ordering overseas to the
> English publisher.

It really isn't any trouble at all.   I sent them a FAX
with my Visa card number and received the book about 10 days
later.   As I recall, the total charge was under $30.

--  Alan E. Frisbie               Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: small turbine info
From: frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: 29 Nov 95 09:30:27 PST

In article <49e5dd$60i@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, 
pete_v@ix.netcom.com (Pete Vranesich) writes:

> recently there was a post about the source of a book on the theory and 
> construction of a small(4"dia)turbine engine. If anyone could email me 
> the source I would appreciate it. 

Not just one book, but TWO books *and* a video!

1) Gas Turbine Engines for Model Aircraft
   by Kurt Schreckling
   13.45 UK pounds, plus p&p

2) Model Jet Engines
   by Thomas Kamps
   13.45 UK pounds, plus p&p
   (This book reviews several jets, including Schreckling's,
   and proceeds from there.   I haven't finished it yet, so
   I cannot give a more thorough review.)

3) Jet Power with JPX   (video, approximately 30 minutes)
   (Part training, part advertising on the French JPX jet
   engine.   The JPX is similar in size to Schreckling's, but
   is fueled by propane.   Request NTSC format for use in North
   America)
   12.95 UK pounds, plus p&p

These prices are Christmas specials, good only until 12-Jan-1996.
After that, they all increase to 14.95 UK pounds.
Available from:

   Traplet Publications Ltd.
   Traplet House
   Severn Drive
   Upton-Upon-Severn
   Worchestershire  WR8 0JL
   England

   +44 1684 594505 (voice)     (011-44-1684-594505 from USA)
   +44 1684 594586 (FAX)
   E-Mail: Traplet@Dial.Pipex.Com

or

   TPL USA
   P.O. Box 167
   Florham Park, NJ 07932

   (no telephone available for this office)

They will accept credit card orders by phone, FAX or e-mail.
Personally, I would not send my credit card info over the
Internet, but that is up to you.

When I received my order, then enclosed a catalog of their
other books, videos, model plans, and magazines.   It took
a lot of will-power to not subscribe to "British Bike" magazine.

--  Alan E. Frisbie               Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: home made jet engine
From: frisbie@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: 11 Dec 95 09:25:29 PST

In article <4acr36$p6m@newsgate.dircon.co.uk>, 
steve <sgriff@dircon.co.uk> writes:

> I have made a gas turbine engine based one the book by kurt schreckling
> it runs on a mixture of diesel and petrol it seems to run well I have had
> it running at 60'000 rpm and does not vibrate or overheat soon to be
> trying full throttle 75'000 rpm.

> I would be interested to know if anyone else has built one or has any
> information that may be of interest on this subject.

I started making one, but have not done anything on it in
the last eight months.   My problem is that I want to do
everything as perfectly as possible, rather than "good enough".
This tends to slow me down.   :-)

When I saw that it required high-quality welds, I decided to
learn TIG welding.   However, the school requires that students
first learn gas and conventional arc welding processes before
they will teach TIG.   This took two semesters, but I am now
in the TIG class and progressing "as well as can be expected
for one night a week".

I would like to know how you are measuring RPM, etc.?

--  Alan E. Frisbie               Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)