From: gunfreak@aol.com (Gunfreak)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Need engraving done!!!(can you spell ENTRAPMENT?)
Date: 14 Jan 1999 20:17:38 GMT

I'm not in the habit of entrapping people, but the spirit of what you say has
some merit.  Several years ago BATF changed their rulings as to what entails a
silencer.  It used to be that you could buy parts of a silencer; the outer tube
or the innards.  You were okay as long as you didn't have enough to make a
whole silencer.  You'd go to a gun show and a guy at one table would sell you
the innards, a guy at another table would sell you the tube.  Now the BATF
considers just about everything on the planet to be a silencer part.  I can't
have internal parts made for me unless they're made by another Class 2
manufacturer.  But there's no way to register and transfer just the parts.
I've been having the tubes engraved, but they're just blank pieces of tubing.
So they're considered to be incomplete parts.  I'm having a few thousand
stainless steel washers made for me right now, but they need another operation
to be considered complete.  I understand that the endcap (where the bullet
exits) is NOT a silencer part (for some reason), and I'm probably going to sub
these out.  There is a huge grey area surrounding the whole issue of silencer
parts, and there is not a lot of logic involved.  Basically, if the BATF "wants
your ass", this is one way they can get you.  Chances are they'd lose in court,
but who has the money to fight the government?

Mark Serbu
Serbu Firearms, Inc. (A legitimate Class 2 manufacturer)

>From: gunner312@aol.com (GUNNER312)
>Date: 1/14/99 1:00 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <19990114010024.21249.00004425@ngol07.aol.com>
>
>
>I'd be real careful with this one folks,  before you can work on these you
>need
>a class III FFL.  Hmmm, How fast can you spell entrapment before you get
>caught?????  I personally wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, or even a 4
>foot Itialian.  LOL

From: gunfreak@aol.com (Gunfreak)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Need engraving done!!!(can you spell ENTRAPMENT?)
Date: 15 Jan 1999 21:53:36 GMT

Like I said before, it depends on whether or not BATF wants your ass.  They
probably don't care about you.  BUT, in the very complex where my shop is,
there used to be several machine shops.  Some BATF guy entrapped a few of them
into making silencer parts, and some people went to court, if not to jail.
Generally, you have to have an idea, at least, that these parts are for illegal
use for you to be considered liable.  The kind of machine shop owners that get
nailed are the ones who get told, "Uh, just don't ask what these parts are for,
okay?"  followed by several winks.  Just stay clean (or at least VERY ignorant)
and you should be okay.   Even if you're in the right, it's hard to match the
legal budget of the U.S. Government.

Mark Serbu


77nsbb$h68$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com wrote:

>We make parts regularly without knowing what they are.   Nuclear reactor,
>satellite, military etc.
>
>If I make apparently standard parts and they are then used for illegal
>silencers, for example, can I be held liable.  Please remember that it is
>very common in aerospace and military work to be asked to make parts without
>knowing the final use.	Boeing had a huge B-2 part everybody saw and
the
>people actually working on it did not know what it was for.
>
>Tom

From: gunfreak@aol.com (Gunfreak)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Class 2 vs. Class 3
Date: 16 Jan 1999 03:15:06 GMT

Silencers, machine guns, AOWs (gadget guns, shotgun pistols) and short barreled
rifles & shotguns are all Title 2 weapons.  Title 1 weapons are "normal" guns.
Anyway, a Class 2 manufacturer can make any of the above, while a Class 3
dealer can deal in any of the above.  A Class 2 manufacturer is also a Class 3
dealer.

Mark "Machine guns 'R' Us" Serbu

Spehro Pefhany <speff@interlog.com> wrote:
>
>the renowned Gunfreak <gunfreak@aol.com> wrote:
>> Like I said before, it depends on whether or not BATF wants your ass.  They
>> probably don't care about you.
>
><entrapment story snipped>
>
>Just one thing I am curious about, Mark. On your web page and in a
>previous posting you said you were a licenced Class II shop. From what
>little I have read of US firearms laws, I though silencers were in the
>same category as machine guns (Class III). What's the story on this?
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Spehro Pefhany                                    "The