From: Mary Shafer <shafer@reseng.dfrc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: Another weird question:
Date: 14 Apr 1998 13:13:15 -0700

Evan Burton <evan@cairns.net.au> writes:

> Late post, so I'm probably repeating things.  Some cockpits will remain
> WATER-tight underwater.  But their O2 masks will normally ensure that
> they have breathing O2 even underwater.
>
> Zorak wrote:
> >
> > I have another strange question for the experts here:
> >
> > I know that a jet's cockpit is designed to be airtight. I also understand
> > that it's designed to keep pressure inside the cockpit. But I was wondering
> > if a plane were to sink in the water how deep could it go before the water
> > pressure forces water into the cockpit? Also, don't jets have their own
> > oxygen supply? If a jet crashed into a lake, for instance, and remained
> > undamaged, how long could the pilot survive in the cockpit in say, 50 feet
> > of water?

One of our pilots, ex-USN, told me about a guy in an A-4 who ended up
going in the water off the end of the deck (a catapult problem, I
think).  The carrier ran over him, with the airplane canopy and
vertical scraping along the bottom of the hull as it tried to float.
He popped up to the surface at the stern, opened the canopy, and
stepped over the side when the helo showed up.  I've forgotten how
long this actually took, although the A-4 driver thought it was an
eternity.  He didn't think it was going to work out quite that well
and was pretty pleased when it did.  My friend said that the guy said
that he didn't even get wet until he opened the canopy, as the seal
held.

--
Mary Shafer               NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
SR-71 Flying Qualities Lead Engineer     Of course I don't speak for NASA
shafer@reseng.dfrc.nasa.gov                               DoD #362 KotFR
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
For personal messages, please use shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com

From: Mary Shafer <shafer@reseng.dfrc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: Another weird question:
Date: 15 Apr 1998 13:04:25 -0700

nospam@yadda.yadda.yadda (BlackBeard) writes:

> In article <u0d8ekmaas.fsf@reseng.dfrc.nasa.gov>, Mary Shafer
> <shafer@reseng.dfrc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>
> >
> >One of our pilots, ex-USN, told me about a guy in an A-4 who ended up
> >going in the water off the end of the deck (a catapult problem, I
> >think).  The carrier ran over him, with the airplane canopy and
> >vertical scraping along the bottom of the hull as it tried to float.
> >He popped up to the surface at the stern, opened the canopy, and
> >stepped over the side when the helo showed up.  I've forgotten how
> >long this actually took, although the A-4 driver thought it was an
> >eternity.  He didn't think it was going to work out quite that well
> >and was pretty pleased when it did.  My friend said that the guy said
> >that he didn't even get wet until he opened the canopy, as the seal
> >held.
>
> Hmmm... Did he start the story by saying "This is no shit"?

No, he started off by telling me the A-4 pilot's name and when and
where he'd told him about the incident.  This isn't "a friend of a
friend" story, this is a "so-and-so told me about this happening to
him" story.  I know sea stories well enough to recognize most of their
earmarks.  I also know this pilot pretty well.  I'm willing to believe
that it really happened in roughly the way I wrote it above.  There
was more to the story, like why he didn't or couldn't eject and what
happened back at the props, that I just can't remember, so I left them
out rather than guess.  That part about scraping down the hull really
made an impression, though.

> I would be
> amazed at the thought of him making through/past the props/propwash/rudder
> etc. right side up and in one piece.  But stranger things have happened.

Well, it was being told as the absolute wierdest thing that had ever
happened to the absolute luckiest person that had ever fallen off the
front end of the deck.  It was not being told as something that a
reasonable person would ever expect to happen.  I put it in about the
same class as that sailor that recently fell off a ship (a carrier,
maybe?)  unobserved, at night, in the Persian Gulf, and managed to
swim 17 miles to land, partly because he trapped air in his dungarees
to make an adhoc life vest, except that the sailor survived through
luck and his own efforts and the pilot just had luck.

--
Mary Shafer               NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
SR-71 Flying Qualities Lead Engineer     Of course I don't speak for NASA
shafer@reseng.dfrc.nasa.gov                               DoD #362 KotFR
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
For personal messages, please use shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com