Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: baldwin@netcom.com (J.D. Baldwin)
Subject: Re: Marines or Navy
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 04:13:50 GMT

In article <19981230124523.01070.00003599@ng-cf1.aol.com>,
S3Hoov <s3hoov@aol.com> wrote:
>     Once you are commissioned you have at least four years to play
> Navy.  Don't squander your college career with formations, uniforms,
> curfews and all the bs of academy life.  I turned down a Naval Academy
> appointment to stay at Auburn University and am thankful everyday that
> I did!

And now, for the USNA grad perspective on the question:

Go ROTC.  What S3Hoov wrote above is pretty much accurate.  Not only
will you not be miserable for four years (not necessarily, anyway),
but you'll actually learn to be responsible for yourself instead
of having everything taken care of for you.

I wouldn't say I *regret* going USNA, exactly -- I got opportunities
to do a hell of a lot of cool things there, and the pedigree sure
impresses the yokels out here in western Michigan -- but I sure as
hell wouldn't do it again.  Thank God I scammed the Navy into sending
me to a real school for my M.S.

On the other hand, if you absolutely *must* go to a service academy,
do not under any circumstances consider any other than Navy.  If
you're going to hate life for four years, you might as well hate life
a) close to someplace reasonably civilized, and b) get a decent
education out of the deal.

Taking it back one level, I don't really recommend that young people
these days consider the military as a realistic option.  My timing was
pretty good, having come in at the morale and readiness nadir of the
late 1970's and left before things really turned to shit a couple of
years back.  But the drawdown of force levels, the erosion and
outright cancellation of benefits, the increasingly uncertain and
crappy VA / retirement benefits package, etc., just don't add up to
a real pretty picture these days.

Of course, if you're absolutely *dying* to fly fast military jets,
then I guess you don't have a lot of options.  Just keep in mind that
you're quite likely to wind up doing aviation scut work like, ooohhhh,
I don't know, flying carrier-based tankers, for example.  (Sorry,
S3Hoov, couldn't resist.)

> Also, it was posted earlier in the same thread that undergrad pilot
> training and operational qualifications take 1-2 years.  Count on
> 3-4.

These days, they say, it's taking significantly over four years
(counting the RAG/FRS).  In my time (mid-1980's) it was more like
three.  I think it might be possible to get through in less than three
years, but that would be pretty remarkable.
--
 From the catapult of J.D. Baldwin  |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
   _,_    Finger baldwin@netcom.com |+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
 _|70|___:::)=}-  for PGP public    |+| retract it, but also to deny under
 \      /         key information.  |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: thunder@rmii.com (Ed Rasimus)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: Marines or Navy
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 15:42:09 GMT

baldwin@netcom.com (J.D. Baldwin) wrote:

>On the other hand, if you absolutely *must* go to a service academy,
>do not under any circumstances consider any other than Navy.  If
>you're going to hate life for four years, you might as well hate life
>a) close to someplace reasonably civilized, and b) get a decent
>education out of the deal.

At least here in Colorado Springs we can find a parking place, breath
the air and see to the horizon. You could also stop by and visit the
Commander-In-Chiefs trophy where it usually resides.

>> Also, it was posted earlier in the same thread that undergrad pilot
>> training and operational qualifications take 1-2 years.  Count on
>> 3-4.
>
>These days, they say, it's taking significantly over four years
>(counting the RAG/FRS).  In my time (mid-1980's) it was more like
>three.  I think it might be possible to get through in less than three
>years, but that would be pretty remarkable.

God, how things change. When I went through UPT and CCTS, the
undergraduate part took 53 weeks, then survival training and 8 months
in combat crew training. I went to war and came back with 100 missions
North all in 28 months. What's holding you guys back? :-))



 Ed Rasimus                   *** Peak Computing Magazine
  Fighter Pilot (ret)         ***   (http://peak-computing.com)
                              *** Ziff-Davis Interactive
                              ***   (http://www.zdnet.com)

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: baldwin@netcom.com (J.D. Baldwin)
Subject: Re: Marines or Navy
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:10:18 GMT

In article <3695834e.75444761@news.rmi.net>, Ed Rasimus
<thunder@rmii.com> wrote:
> >On the other hand, if you absolutely *must* go to a service academy,
> >do not under any circumstances consider any other than Navy.  If
> >you're going to hate life for four years, you might as well hate life
> >a) close to someplace reasonably civilized, and b) get a decent
> >education out of the deal.
>
> At least here in Colorado Springs we can find a parking place,

A rule of Nature:  when you're 100 miles from the nearest remotely
interesting thing, it's easy to find somewhere to park.

> breath the air

Yeah, but not really, given the reduced O2 content . . .  (Not that
I don't personally prefer such an environment, mind you.)

> and see to the horizon.

Now I *know* you're trolling!  The only service academies from which a
"horizon" can be seen are in New London and Annapolis, due to their
proximity to large bodies of water.

> You could also stop by and visit the Commander-In-Chiefs trophy
> where it usually resides.

[*Suppressed yawn.*]

No one really cares about anything except the Army-Navy game.  The
CinC Trophy was a bit of marketing to try to convince everyone that
there is a third "player" in the most classic football rivalry in the
history of the game.  It went over about as well as New Coke.  And
besides that, no actual "Commander-in-Chief" has ever actually even
seen -- or probably even heard of -- the thing.

Besides, it's a lot easier to recruit 240-pound linemen when your
academic standards for athletes are closer to Florida State's than to,
say, Northwestern's.

> >These days, they say, it's taking significantly over four years
> >(counting the RAG/FRS).  In my time (mid-1980's) it was more like
> >three.  I think it might be possible to get through in less than three
> >years, but that would be pretty remarkable.
>
> God, how things change. When I went through UPT and CCTS, the
> undergraduate part took 53 weeks, then survival training and 8
> months in combat crew training. I went to war and came back with 100
> missions North all in 28 months. What's holding you guys back? :-))

These days, according to "Navy Times," a LOT of waiting around between
phases of training.  Seems the bean-counters running the show aren't
as good at planning as everyone thinks.  And that's pretty sad when
you consider that no one really thinks they're at all smart.
--
 From the catapult of J.D. Baldwin  |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
   _,_    Finger baldwin@netcom.com |+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
 _|70|___:::)=}-  for PGP public    |+| retract it, but also to deny under
 \      /         key information.  |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.military.naval
From: baldwin@netcom.com (J.D. Baldwin)
Subject: Re: USNA grads...
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 06:00:39 GMT

In article <7bpbpo$e37$1@news-1.news.gte.net>, TK <tklimas@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> > This one's for all the Academy grads.  Four simple questions.
> >
> >1. What is your best memory of your four years by the bay?
>
> Honestly - having George Bush hand me my diploma - some close
> seconds would be Army-Navy in Pasadena in 83,

. . . let me think for a moment -- that would be the one where we
mounted the largest military airlift operation between 1945 and 1990
so that 9,000 cadets and midshipmen could travel across a continent to
watch two 2-8 football teams play?  Hey, whatever floats your boat.

> climbing Herndon in 84 and just about any Friday after spring break
> - I also have some fond memories from Hood College, Notre Dame in
> Baltimore, Princeton, JMU and Gaucher - but those didn't happen by
> the Bay so I won't go into that...

If you meant Goucher, it's not so far from the Bay.

> >2. What is your worst memory?
>
> The first evening of Induction Day (I-day) - what have I done?  close
> seconds would be the night after parents weekend during plebe summer
> and the dark ages during Plebe Year (Jan-Mar).

What, that YP cruise didn't even make the list?  Worst five days of
my whole life, until SERE.  Then again, I can at least say that I
got some valuable training (and weight loss) out of SERE.

> > 4.  Would you do it again?  Why or why not?
>
> Without hesitation - I bleed blue and gold (despite having left the
> Navy 7 years ago).  USNA is a world class institution that preserves
> the values which make are country great...

Yes, if your dream is to spend your college years being treated like
(and trusted as much as) an obnoxious five-year-old, by all means,
get your application in the mail today.

Personally, I don't recommend it.  There are better educations (some
to be had right there in Annapolis, for that matter), better routes to
a commission and MUCH better ways to spend 5% of your life than that.
Trust me on this.
--
 From the catapult of J.D. Baldwin  |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
   _,_    Finger baldwin@netcom.com |+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
 _|70|___:::)=}-  for PGP public    |+| retract it, but also to deny under
 \      /         key information.  |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------