From: "Andrew Higgins" <higgins@mecheng.mcgill.ca>
Newsgroups: sci.space.history
Subject: Re: Titan Missile -- 1955 Status?
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 02:35:16 GMT

In article <374C98D3.8DC60022@pacbell.net> , "Michael P. Walsh"
<mp_walsh@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>George Herbert wrote:
>>
>> As I recall, he was hounded out of the country in the McCarthy
>> era for what appear now to have been completely trumped-up
>> charges rather than real espionage activities, and he was forced
>> to return against his will to mainland China, who promptly put
>> him to use on their missiles program (for the obvious reasons).
>>
>> -george william herbert
>> gherbert@crl.com
>
>I believe some people have been rewriting history again.
>
>Rather than being hounded out of the U.S. he was prevented
>from leaving the U.S. to return to Communist China and my
>understanding he was leaving with a large amount of technical
>information (this was unclassified, but still important).
>
>Since we never reached the totalitarian depths of our antagonists
>he was eventually allowed to return to China where he basically
>jump-started their missile program.
>

The story is much more complex than either of those accounts.

There were various factions within the U.S. (Depts. of Defense, State,
etc.) in the early 1950's.  Some wanted Tsien out:  he had loose
Communist Party affiliations in California from the 1930's, his homeland
had just become a Communist state, and he was working on highly
classified defense projects.  Some wanted to keep him in:  he already
knew too much.

Tsien's stated desire was to return to China for a short visit, but he
also gave indications of wanting to return for good.  His true
intentions were unclear.  For 5 years, he was in limbo:  security
clearance revoked, under constant investigation, unable to work on
defense contracts, but not free to return to China.

The deciding factor was the 1955 U.S.-P.R.C. talks on the return of U.S.
service men being held by the Chinese since the Korean War.  The Chinese
negotiated the return of the U.S. service men, with the main condition
being that the U.S. must give Tsien back to China.  He went back to
China shortly thereafter.

See "Thread of the Silkworm" by Iris Chang for details.
--
     Andrew J. Higgins            Department of Mechanical Eng.
     Shock Wave Physics Group     McGill University
     higgins@mecheng.mcgill.ca    Montreal, Quebec

From: "Andrew Higgins" <higgins@mecheng.mcgill.ca>
Newsgroups: sci.space.history
Subject: Re: Titan Missile -- 1955 Status?
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 01:42:14 GMT

In article <374C31FD.862B822C@pacbell.net> , "Michael P. Walsh"
<mp_walsh@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>I suspect the reference to the scientist is to Tsien who
>returned to China and provided great impetus to their
>rocket program.
>

This may be of special interest to this group, and given recent
developments, of more general interest:  there was a decent book on
Tsien Hsue-shen written a few years ago by Iris Chang:

    Iris Chang
    "Thread of the Silkworm"
    Basic Books, 1996
    ISBN: 0465006787
    still in print

This is the same author who went on to write the controversial "The Rape
of Nanking".

If you want the full story on how China obtained Western missile
technology, this book is an essential and fascinating tale.
--
     Andrew J. Higgins            Department of Mechanical Eng.
     Shock Wave Physics Group     McGill University
     higgins@mecheng.mcgill.ca    Montreal, Quebec

From: jamesoberg@aol.com (JamesOberg)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Date: 07 Dec 2000 16:02:04 GMT
Subject: Re: The Christian Science Monitor: The forgotten 'spy' case of a 
	rocket scientist

Tsien also wrote newspaper articles full of  enthusiastic nonsense about
small-scale industrialization that in large part persuaded Mao to initiate the
insane "Great Lep Forward" in which ten million Chinese died.

<In his heyday, Tsien Hsue-shen was one
of the most famous people in China,
appearing on podiums with Mao, and
today the Beijing leadership still
occasionally calls on him to lend his
prestige to their purposes. He recently
issued a statement denouncing the
banned spiritual movement Falun Gong.>

From: Dwayne Allen Day <wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: The Christian Science Monitor: The forgotten 'spy' case of a 
	rocket  scientist
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:21:30 GMT

Tom McWilliams <mcwillia@msu.edu> wrote:
: The way I've heard it, plenty has been alleged, and some supported.  I
: recall something about 'the hug' and words from a known 'foreign agent'
: lauding his contribution to Chinese missle tech.

I think you are confusing Tsien with Wen Ho Lee.  Lee is alleged to have
been hugged by the head of the Chinese nuclear program, who reputedly said
something laudatory about his contributions to their weapons
program.  (All alleged.)

That's not Tsien.

I actually interviewed one of Tsien's former students for an unrelated
project.  This person later became a top US Air Force official.  He is
convinced that Tsien's position quickly hardened after accusations were
made against him.  He was a prideful man and probably assumed that if he
was going to be treated like that by US authorities, there was no reason
for him to stay in the US.  (Tsien, according to Iris Chang's book, was
also a little weird at times.  But that probably came with his
brilliance.)

Note that I am not arguing that Tsien later became a dyed in the wool
communist, just that there is no good evidence that he was a communist in
1950 or that he was a spy.  And the Cox report certainly did nothing to
make that case.



D