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Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
Subject: Re: RT328 and BA packages
From: fgoldstein@bbn.NO$ (Fred R. Goldstein)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:39:35 GMT

In article <6a7lfl$>, says...
>I called to get my ISDN line ordered today.  Naturally, BA was less than
>enthusiastic about me using an 'unsupported' router, the NetGear RT328.  I
>have the RT328 on order, so I can change if necessary.  The BA rep pushed
>that I get the Bay Nautica CLAM.  She couldn't quote me a price, however
>it is more 'supported' than the RT328.

It is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS what you plug into the line, so long as the U
interface has FCC registration (which it has to to be sold).  We're talking
the ILEC here, not the ISP.   If you're talking the ISP, then I can't figure
out why you'd use in MA.  They're just reselling
anyway, and don't support DOV, which is a  hell of a lot cheaper than the
alternative that BellTitanic wants you to use.

>        BA also suggested I get the U package, which naturally is the most
>expensive one offered.  All I need is DOV, 2 B channels, and to be able to
>receive incoming calls on demand (ACO I think).

Make 'em work.  Forget those silly packages, unless Bay says you need it.
Demand a supervisor from Telemon (1800-forGET-ISDN, BA's contractor).  Demand
"1 voice LTH5X, 1 alternate voice/data LTH1X, and ACO."  Also, of course,
you need to have NI-1 or AT&T Custom Multipoint, plus Bay's favored
termtype, also MTERM=2.  The ACO is only needed if you have BOTH B channels
up for data and want incoming.  With voice available on both B channels, find
a DOV-compatible ISP.  (I don't know about shore, but, soon to be
RCN, is one that covers all of E Mass.)

BTW I wonder how different Clam is from RT328 anyway.  Different package, but
did they carry over most of the code anyway?  That would solve the
compatibility issues.
Fred R. Goldstein   k1io    fgoldstein"at"
GTE Internetworking - BBN Technologies, Cambridge MA USA  +1 617 873 3850
Opinions are mine alone; sharing requires permission.

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
Subject: Re: Newbie: Do these rates seem high to you?
From: fgoldstein@bbn.NO$ (Fred R. Goldstein)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:53:38 GMT

In article <240156@news.IPSWITCH.COMM>, ddl@danlan.*com says...

>Consider yourself lucky.  Here is MA (Bell Atlantic--formerly Nynex--
>territory) I was just quoted $3100-$10000 install plus $25/month surcharge
>(these because I am supposedly too far from the switch) plus of course the
>normal $20/month ISDN charge (plus whatever the current line taxes) plus
>the basic telephone service (~$45/month for the only plan that would be of
>any use to me in this context).  It was very difficult to get these numbers
>at all and I'm not sure they are even valid.  Being cynical, I suspect they
>just don't want to deal with any situation that requires an extended loop
>qualification (they simply won't do the loss test for me) and try to scare
>off potential customers.  Only when I didn't immediately retreat upon
>hearing the enourmous non-recurring cost did they come up with the additional
>$25/month.  When pressed for details of exactly what I was paying for, the rep
>said "your geographic area has something called a tariff which requires it."
>What more could I say? :(

More precisely, it's because there is *no* tariff.  The tariff simply mumbles
some words about prices applying where standard installation practices (I
forget the exact words) apply, and that excludes anything more than 18kf from
the line terminator.  They quote an outrageous "Special Assembly" fee for the
mid-span repeater.  I've actually had customers use it.  Most telcos simply
assume that some small percentage of users will need the mid-span repeater, and
factor it in.  NYNEX doesn't.

There is often a workaround, though.  The fee does NOT apply if you are within
18kf of a Subscriber Line Carrier (SLC).  Their normal loop-disqualification
process does NOT look for an SLC nearby.  If you have 100 pairs on your block,
90 to an SLC a quarter-mile away and 10 to the CO four miles away, they'll
disqualify you based on the 10 being too far.  YOU have to find the SLC.  This
is not public information, but you *might* see the telltale air-conditioned
manhole chimney nearby.  Or you can "social engineer" your way by phone into
NYNEX engineering, and get somebody there to spill the beans.  Then you order
the line *specifying that SLC* and they will have a harder time disqualifying
it.  There is no surcharge for SLC-served lines, and while NYNEX SLCs will
typically destroy modems, they work well for ISDN.  (In other words, in my
neighborhood, it's ISDN or cable.  Modems aren't an option.)

Been there, done that.

The whole point of the NYNEX/BA setup is to prevent ISDN orders from having to
be filled; it's the ratepayer's job to force them to live up to their
monopolist's responsiblity.
Fred R. Goldstein   k1io    fgoldstein"at"
GTE Internetworking - BBN Technologies, Cambridge MA USA  +1 617 873 3850
Opinions are mine alone; sharing requires permission.

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